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Addendum $7000 Tower Speaker

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7000-vertical-rigging.jpgI wasn’t interested in including my Infinity IRS Epsilon that I use as a center channel in the results, because it:

 

  • Doesn’t have any driver redundancy
  • Isn’t horizontal without killing someone
  • Lacks any similar model to compare it to, and
  • Is not a design that is in current production (originally $14,000 per pair)

 

But while I had the test equipment setup, I was curious about how well it measured. Were my guests actually enjoying a coherent center channel sound, or were they just saying what they needed to get me to go away?

 

As you can see in the below 1/6 octave horizontal frequency response chart, the vertical array of drivers do not exhibit wave interference. There is a fall off in the top frequencies of the tweeter, which is common.

 

7000-vertical-chart1.jpg

Infinity’s Cary Christie explained in his white paper on this speaker, “As the wavelengths approach the dimensions of the diaphragm, the waveshape begins to become planar rather than spherical. In a typical [one inch] dome tweeter, for example, this narrowing, or “beaming” becomes serious at about 10 kHz. If the dome had flat power response, the on-axis response would actually rise, and some do, however most show a roll-off in power response due to the reactive mass of the dome. The on-axis frequency response of such a tweeter may show a ‘flat’ characteristic out to beyond 20 kHz, but this is only because the energy is concentrated in an increasingly narrower angle. The actual power response of the dome is falling off rapidly, beginning its drop-off as low as 6 kHz.” The somewhat improved the off-axis response of this planar tweeter by adding a second one in the back. Even though this could in theory cause wave interference across the horizontal plane, the back tweeter’s response is randomized by reflecting off the back wall. My speakers are 6.7 feet from the back wall, which reduces the rear tweeter’s ability to help out. Regardless, I still have much more top frequency roll-off away from center than the W(T/M)W speaker that was used in configurations 8 and 9. My credit card just moaned.

 

From the test results, wave interference from redundant horizontal drivers or crossover overlap is not an issue. However well the Epsilon can possibly sound in The Captain’s Chair, it responds consistently across all seats in the room. My guests are surely experiencing as good a sound as my budget allowed for, but I’d guess they’re still appeasing me somewhat with acclaim. The last thing they’ll do is encourage me to spend more money.

 

They just don’t understand.

 

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Recent Forum Posts:

TLS Guy posts on October 20, 2009 23:33
irish, post: 637493
Thanks for the recommendations. The Beta 360 would be too large for my application although it does look nice. The KEF Q series, iQ60c, looks like it might work pretty well as it's less than 7“ tall. The speaker cabinet design is a bit different but that isn't a breaking point. How do co-axials differ from in sound or performance from a more ”traditional" design where the speakers are seperate?

If more speakers had a wider bandwidth, then there would be no crossovers and multiple speakers. Multiple speakers are a workaround for a problem, not an inherent advantage.

The point of a coaxial speaker is to keep the sound coherent. What would be ideal is to have a bass/mid cone that crossed over to the tweeter, 4 kHz, then you would avoid a crossover in the speech discrimination band. However no such animal exists at present and crossover to the tweeter in current units is in the neighborhood of 3 kHz.

In a coaxial, the cone of the woofer acts as a wave guide to the tweeter. Things a re designed such that there is usually time coherence. However because a first order crossover is just about never possible, there are phase anomalies at crossover, just like any other speaker. There is symmetrical lobing and therefore the vertical and horizontal axis response is identical. The coverage is therefore conical.

As far as drivers to choose from the most well known are KEF and Tannoy. Thiel also has a coaxial center. Pioneer also have one in their range.

However, after having auditioned KEF recently the SEAS driver is in my view far superior.

You can buy a LOKI kit that is very good value.

I use these drivers in my center speaker. The tweeter is used only in the lower driver, the upper one is an active fill driver and the tweeter not connected.



In this TL, I could not be more happy with it.
irish posts on October 20, 2009 16:54
lsiberian, post: 637476
For If you are interested in a coaxial accessories4less sells KEF speakers for a pretty cheap clip. Still you'd have to like their other offering. I think the best horizontal center I've heard in the budget range is the Beta 360 treated with rockwool and peel-n-seal

Thanks for the recommendations. The Beta 360 would be too large for my application although it does look nice. The KEF Q series, iQ60c, looks like it might work pretty well as it's less than 7“ tall. The speaker cabinet design is a bit different but that isn't a breaking point. How do co-axials differ from in sound or performance from a more ”traditional" design where the speakers are seperate?
lsiberian posts on October 20, 2009 16:12
irish, post: 637446
Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids…
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!

These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm

For If you are interested in a coaxial accessories4less sells KEF speakers for a pretty cheap clip. Still you'd have to like their other offering. I think the best horizontal center I've heard in the budget range is the Beta 360 treated with rockwool and peel-n-seal
TLS Guy posts on October 20, 2009 15:30
irish, post: 637446
Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids…
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!

These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm

The paradigm C190 is on the right lines, but I think you would have to go with an all Paradigm system, as they have a definite voicing about them, that I did not care for when I auditioned them, at least the Studio 100s
irish posts on October 20, 2009 15:13
TLS Guy, post: 637438
Yes they would. To make a good horizontal center, you need either a coaxial driver, or a three way with at least the tweeter above the mid, and preferably the mid band/pass crossover point spread 350 Hz to at least 4 kHz, like the B & W.

Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids…
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!

These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm
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