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$2500 WTMW Horizontally Oriented

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2500-horizontal-rigging.jpgNow we get to take a peak at a very high-end center speaker design. Since this large speaker easily outgrew my test stand, it gets to rest in The Captain’s Chair for this test, receiving better treatment than most of my family. The Stressless® Recliner naturally cradled the speaker in all of its supple softness, which certainly resulted in a less stressed sound.

This $2500 supermodel maintains a mostly horizontal profile, while reducing potential wave interference by having less of the bandwidth play through horizontally redundant drivers. Speakers that have the tweeter and midrange vertically arranged will naturally have a smoother off-axis response. To supplement the dynamic headroom of this speaker and allow you to lower your subwoofer crossover point (although there are good arguments to keep it at 80 Hz), this design has two woofers that are low-pass filtered at 350 Hz.

The 1/24 octave chart below shows a generally inaudible difference in the speaker’s response across various angles. The frequency range of the redundant drivers, from 80 to 350 Hz, is highlighted by the yellow bracket.

2500-horizontal-chart1.jpg

In the 1/6 octave chart below, the off-axis response of this speaker was nearly perfect. We can see one significant -5 dB wave cancellation from the woofers interfering with each other just above their crossover point at 360 Hz. Even though this would be audible, because the entire effect is such a narrow bandwidth, this really isn’t something to worry about. The off-axis response of the tweeter is fantastic.

2500-horizontal-chart3.jpg

The standard deviation of the frequency response from the two woofers calculated to 1.02. This was by far the best performing horizontally oriented configuration.

 

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TLS Guy posts on October 20, 2009 23:33
irish, post: 637493
Thanks for the recommendations. The Beta 360 would be too large for my application although it does look nice. The KEF Q series, iQ60c, looks like it might work pretty well as it's less than 7“ tall. The speaker cabinet design is a bit different but that isn't a breaking point. How do co-axials differ from in sound or performance from a more ”traditional" design where the speakers are seperate?

If more speakers had a wider bandwidth, then there would be no crossovers and multiple speakers. Multiple speakers are a workaround for a problem, not an inherent advantage.

The point of a coaxial speaker is to keep the sound coherent. What would be ideal is to have a bass/mid cone that crossed over to the tweeter, 4 kHz, then you would avoid a crossover in the speech discrimination band. However no such animal exists at present and crossover to the tweeter in current units is in the neighborhood of 3 kHz.

In a coaxial, the cone of the woofer acts as a wave guide to the tweeter. Things a re designed such that there is usually time coherence. However because a first order crossover is just about never possible, there are phase anomalies at crossover, just like any other speaker. There is symmetrical lobing and therefore the vertical and horizontal axis response is identical. The coverage is therefore conical.

As far as drivers to choose from the most well known are KEF and Tannoy. Thiel also has a coaxial center. Pioneer also have one in their range.

However, after having auditioned KEF recently the SEAS driver is in my view far superior.

You can buy a LOKI kit that is very good value.

I use these drivers in my center speaker. The tweeter is used only in the lower driver, the upper one is an active fill driver and the tweeter not connected.



In this TL, I could not be more happy with it.
irish posts on October 20, 2009 16:54
lsiberian, post: 637476
For If you are interested in a coaxial accessories4less sells KEF speakers for a pretty cheap clip. Still you'd have to like their other offering. I think the best horizontal center I've heard in the budget range is the Beta 360 treated with rockwool and peel-n-seal

Thanks for the recommendations. The Beta 360 would be too large for my application although it does look nice. The KEF Q series, iQ60c, looks like it might work pretty well as it's less than 7“ tall. The speaker cabinet design is a bit different but that isn't a breaking point. How do co-axials differ from in sound or performance from a more ”traditional" design where the speakers are seperate?
lsiberian posts on October 20, 2009 16:12
irish, post: 637446
Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids…
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!

These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm

For If you are interested in a coaxial accessories4less sells KEF speakers for a pretty cheap clip. Still you'd have to like their other offering. I think the best horizontal center I've heard in the budget range is the Beta 360 treated with rockwool and peel-n-seal
TLS Guy posts on October 20, 2009 15:30
irish, post: 637446
Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids…
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!

These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm

The paradigm C190 is on the right lines, but I think you would have to go with an all Paradigm system, as they have a definite voicing about them, that I did not care for when I auditioned them, at least the Studio 100s
irish posts on October 20, 2009 15:13
TLS Guy, post: 637438
Yes they would. To make a good horizontal center, you need either a coaxial driver, or a three way with at least the tweeter above the mid, and preferably the mid band/pass crossover point spread 350 Hz to at least 4 kHz, like the B & W.

Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids…
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!

These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm
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