Marantz Cinema 30 AVR to Replace the SR8015

[PENG]

I am one of the sillies as I opt for Marantz because of sound quality vs denon. Or rather than “quality”, sound signature. Nothing to do with aesthetics. Probably they measure worse, but I like the sound of Marantz way more than Denon

Paraphrasing you: Those who opted for them based on aesthetics and bull-eye hole are really silly to pay a lot more

Paraphrasing you: Those who opted for them based on aesthetics and bull-eye hole are really silly to pay a lot more

Haha, I am glad I am not one of those as I only don't mind paying a little, not a lot more... Having said that, to those people who consider beauty could be priceless, $1,000 more for the C30 over the 6800 is well worth it, even if the Marantz models cost 3X more, they would probably still go for it, we can call them silly all we want.

No offense, if you think you hear that Marantz sound than it works for you, just that you have to know you are listening to the Marantz, because if you don't know (such as blind folded in a dbt test that Harmon and others conducted), then you will not be able tell you are listening the Marantz of the equivalent Denon. Both are facts, that those who believe the Marantz sound is imagined, and those who believe they are real. I say they are silly, only from my standpoint, based solely on engineering/scientific facts, but I know that's not actual silliness because a fact that to those who believe in something, it is real for them. I think can think of how religion works on religious people but I must not go there.

The only things that people often missed, is that one will disappear if the listener does not know which test object is playing, and also that if one believe in it, it is actually real for them. Even on the medical science side, Placebo "drugs" did actually work in some cases, but in those cases, I am sure @AcuDefTechGuy knows much more about what I simply read from Googling and may tell me I am wrong.

 

[Deckard71]

Marantz themselves claim that they have tuned sound different from Denon. I do not know if it is due to HDAM modules. What I know is that I like Marantz more than denon, and stubborns like you are equally funny and sad

 

[PENG]

Another car analogy - a lot of people think cars made in Japan are just better. You rather have a Toyota or Lexus made in the USA or the same car made in Japan?

Sure, you could say similar thing 60 years ago, what did people say about those first made in Japan Toyota?
Anyway, I know what you mean, status and pride of ownership are definitely in people's mind.

 

[Deckard71]

Look how stubborn you are: when you opt for aesthetics you “pay a little more” but when others opt for Marantz for other reasons than aesthetics they pay “a lot more”

Life is too short to spend time with sad people like you.

 

[PENG]

Look how stubborn you are: when you opt for aesthetics you “pay a little more” but when others opt for Marantz for other reasons than aesthetics they pay “a lot more”

Life is too short to spend time with sad people like you.

It is not my problem when people fail to understand the simple logic, let alone the engineering facts, including those proven in credible studies.

Some people seem to think that Marantz (and Denon) design team would actually build their prototype using highly adjustable parts and circuitry so that they would listen to the product and continually adjust the parts and circuitry until they hear their targeted "Marantz sound", that they might be so sure that people will like that "sound" a lot more. I just think that it has a lot more to do with marketing strategy, than presenting facts.

No one is suggesting you to get the Denon instead of Marantz, there is no need to get so rude attach in what I thought was just participating in some hobby forum discussions, and have never said anything personally against anyone.

Have a great day!

 

[isolar8001]

Sure, you could say similar thing 60 years ago, what did people say about those first made in Japan Toyota?
Anyway, I know what you mean, status and pride of ownership are definitely in people's mind.

I bought my first Toyota in 1976 here near the steel town of Pittsburg (ex steel town of Pittsburgh).....boy, did I hear a lot of crap over that.
(why you want that Jap-Junk??)
A few years later as the mills were closing, laid-off steelworkers were selling raffle tickets to bash Toyotas and Datsuns with a sledgehammer.
A few years after that in 1979, they were putting 800 dollars down to order a new Toyota when the gas crisis went into full swing.
Funny how things go full circle.

 

[Deckard71]

and have never said anything personally against anyone.

Really? Religion is also fun for you? What kind of person are you? You think you are above everyone else? Do you know the word RESPECT? I am not religious but I respect this

I visit forums from time to time, basically when I am in the market for new gear. No matter which forum or thread I visit, there will always be a post from you correcting people. There are thousands of posts from you trying to spread your own misery to others. Get a life. If you are completely alone, as it seems to be the case from the time you spend on forums and from your personality, getting a dog is the best (and probably the only one) option for guys like you

 

[PENG]

I bought my first Toyota in 1976 here near the steel town of Pittsburg.....boy, did I hear a lot of crap over that.
(why you want that Jap-Junk??)
A few years later as the mills were closing, laid-off steelworkers were selling raffle tickets to bash Toyotas and Datsuns with a sledgehammer.
A few years after that in 1979, they were putting 800 dollars down to order a new Toyota when the gas crisis went into full swing.
Funny how things go full circle.

Oh yes, I also remember as a kid, how people consider TV brands like Admiral, RCA, GE, were the best, vs the British made Bush, and Japanese made Panasonic, Sharp and of course Sony. Now Samsung seems to be more respected, all these made in XYZ surely have different meaning over the time axis lol... Made in China, Vietnam, Indonesia, even USA in a sense, have to wait for their time on that axis, I guess

 

[isolar8001]

Oh yes, I also remember as a kid, how people consider TV brands like Admiral, RCA, GE, were the best, vs the British made Bush, and Japanese made Panasonic, Sharp and of course Sony. Now Samsung seems to be more respected, all these made in XYZ surely have different meaning over the time axis lol... Made in China, Vietnam, Indonesia, even USA in a sense, have to wait for their time on that axis, I guess

Remember when Samsung was the cheap crap (it was thought) they sold at Murphy's Mart, Gee Bees, Hills etc..etc ??...Microwaves and such.
Then it turned out Samsungs were lasting twice as long at half the price as the big boys.

 

[PENG]

Really? Religion is also fun for you? What kind of person are you? You think you are above everyone else? Do you know the word RESPECT? I am not religious but I respect this

Wow, what's this, I said I must not get into it as I consider that a private thing. My point is that if you believe in something it is real for you, no idea why you keep misinterpreting things. I have no ill feelings about what other people believe.

I visit forums from time to time, basically when I am in the market for new gear. No matter which forum or thread I visit, there will always be a post from you correcting people. There are thousands of posts from you trying to spread your own misery to others. Get a life. If you are completely alone, as it seems to be the case from the time you spend on forums and from your personality, getting a dog is the best (and probably the only one) option for guys like you

That's your understanding, or rather, misunderstanding!!

Yes I have corrected people, for example when people repeating using the term rms power, I had cited the fact that rms power is a misnomer. I would not have said rms power is "wrong", there is a subtle difference. If you can list one thing that I "corrected" people, but did it incorrectly, I would definitely apologize for that. No one is perfect, I am sure I made mistakes in some of my posts.

Please stop taking things so personal, I don't think I have done that to you.

 

[isolar8001]

Marantz sounds like a warm puppy wrapped in a blanket.
Denon sounds like a warm puppy wrapped in a blanket with a head cold.

At least that's what I heard people saying.
My Pioneer sounds like a warm puppy wrapped in a blanket with a fat wad of twenties around his neck....at least that's what I think.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Warranty is just a part of the issue. One issue is what is warranty service like? More often than not suboptimal, with long delays. The next issue and more to the point what is service like after warranty. On some products now there is zero service.

The next issue is failure to issue service manuals. That is a total disgrace. Everything is designed in to make service next to impossible.

Serviceability starts with good design, both electronically and physically in the interior. Then we get to the issue of parts supply for an ethical length of time. A lot of companies don't even have parts for the statutory seven years required by law.

As someone who has been building and doing the bulk of my own service for close to seventy years now, I can tell the current state of affairs is a disgrace. A total disgrace.

So warranty is only a small part of the issue. Things used to be far different. So that is why I keep my equipment long. If I have an older piece in good order, I keep it long. As I said yesterday, I used a turntable over 60 years old, and the preamp it was connected to was sixty years old. It sounded as if it was made last week! That did not happen by accident, but by good design.

So warranty is obviously important, but even more important is service.

Oh yeah. Actual service is more important than the warranty.

I hate it when I need service and I can’t talk to a real person on the phone. I hate it when I need service and I have to send some emails on some website and I don’t get any response for days.

One area that I didn’t like when I owned the Denon components was their Panurgy repair center in New Jersey.

When Masimo took over, I hoped that they would not only offer 5YR warranty, but also Improve their repair center service. So hopefully they have. I heard from a friend who bought a Marantz AVR that the repair service was great.

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh yeah. Actual service is more important than the warranty.

I hate it when I need service and I can’t talk a real person on the phone. I hate it when I need service and I have to send some emails on some website and I don’t get any response for days.

One area that I didn’t like when I owned the Denon components was their Panurgy repair center in New Jersey.

When Masimo took over, I hoped that they would not only offer 5YR warranty, but also Improve their repair center service. So hopefully they have. I heard from a friend who bought a Marantz AVR that the repair service was great.

If they have sorted out that Panurgy disaster, then that is good news.

I just found out that Panasonic now offer no service out of warranty and list zero service centers. So these loosers are now just replacing failed units under warranty, and probably junking them most likely. This is just atrocious behaviour.

I still have not got that optical port for that Sonos soundbar that has been laying around here for weeks from one of my son's brother in law. It is still on the slow boat from China, none are in the US.

This sort of thing is just so wrong.

 

[Verdinut]

If they have sorted out that Panurgy disaster, then that is good news.

I just found out that Panasonic now offer no service out of warranty and list zero service centers. So these loosers are now just replacing failed units under warranty, and probably junking them most likely. This is just atrocious behaviour.

I still have not got that optical port for that Sonos soundbar that has been laying around here for weeks from one of my son's brother in law. It is still on the slow boat from China, none are in the US.

This sort of thing is just so wrong.

Good to know. I will remove Panasonic from list of good brands.

 

[Nondemo01]

If they have sorted out that Panurgy disaster, then that is good news.

I just found out that Panasonic now offer no service out of warranty and list zero service centers. So these loosers are now just replacing failed units under warranty, and probably junking them most likely. This is just atrocious behaviour.

I still have not got that optical port for that Sonos soundbar that has been laying around here for weeks from one of my son's brother in law. It is still on the slow boat from China, none are in the US.

This sort of thing is just so wrong.

I hate to opine again on this topic but we have been a complete and total "throw away society" for decades. Consumerism is now how we all, and I mean ALL, desire/demand "new stuff" combined with manufacturers desire for more profits. Blame human nature, industrialization and mass production, the invention of plastics, online shopping, advertisements, and a lack of education on the effects it has on society. (Ask a 20 year old their thoughts on monogamy and marriage - you'll be SHOCKED at their answer.)

However, blaming any ONE company or series of companies for simply doing what is already prevalent throughout our society is silly. At least we got this far and thank your lucky stars you have antique equipment that still sounds good to you.

 

[Nondemo01]

Haha, I am glad I am not one of those as I only don't mind paying a little, not a lot more... Having said that, to those people who consider beauty could be priceless, $1,000 more for the C30 over the 6800 is well worth it, even if the Marantz models cost 3X more, they would probably still go for it, we can call them silly all we want.

No offense, if you think you hear that Marantz sound than it works for you, just that you have to know you are listening to the Marantz, because if you don't know (such as blind folded in a dbt test that Harmon and others conducted), then you will not be able tell you are listening the Marantz of the equivalent Denon. Both are facts, that those who believe the Marantz sound is imagined, and those who believe they are real. I say they are silly, only from my standpoint, based solely on engineering/scientific facts, but I know that's not actual silliness because a fact that to those who believe in something, it is real for them. I think can think of how religion works on religious people but I must not go there.

The only things that people often missed, is that one will disappear if the listener does not know which test object is playing, and also that if one believe in it, it is actually real for them. Even on the medical science side, Placebo "drugs" did actually work in some cases, but in those cases, I am sure @AcuDefTechGuy knows much more about what I simply read from Googling and may tell me I am wrong.

Man, until I read this, I wasn't aware of how close the Denon AVR-X6800H and Cinema 30 are. Other than the copper chassis and "modern aesthetics" (I actually prefer the old form but I'm weird) they are nearly identical on the outside. You're right, that extra $1,000 may mean I replace my AVR-X4700H with the 6800. (If Crutchfield has another open-box that is. And yes, I am a consumer susceptible to "new/bigger/better". Guilty your honor. But I don't drink bottle water and recycle my coffee grounds....)

 

[TLS Guy]

I hate to opine again on this topic but we have been a complete and total "throw away society" for decades. Consumerism is now how we all, and I mean ALL, desire/demand "new stuff" combined with manufacturers desire for more profits. Blame human nature, industrialization and mass production, the invention of plastics, online shopping, advertisements, and a lack of education on the effects it has on society. (Ask a 20 year old their thoughts on monogamy and marriage - you'll be SHOCKED at their answer.)

However, blaming any ONE company or series of companies for simply doing what is already prevalent throughout our society is silly. At least we got this far and thank your lucky stars you have antique equipment that still sounds good to you.

You just confirmed that the fabric of society is disintegrating in a race to the bottom. Only humans can stop it.

 

[Nondemo01]

You just confirmed that the fabric of society is disintegrating in a race to the bottom. Only humans can stop it.

I hear ya. There's no hope. Why go on? "Check please." Mass extinction for all. No one should live in such medieval times.

 

[PENG]

Man, until I read this, I wasn't aware of how close the Denon AVR-X6800H and Cinema 30 are. Other than the copper chassis and "modern aesthetics" (I actually prefer the old form but I'm weird) they are nearly identical on the outside. You're right, that extra $1,000 may mean I replace my AVR-X4700H with the 6800. (If Crutchfield has another open-box that is. And yes, I am a consumer susceptible to "new/bigger/better". Guilty your honor. But I don't drink bottle water and recycle my coffee grounds....)

I am not sure how close the Denon and the Marantz are in terms of the internal parts used and circuit designs, but Gene listed the difference between the SR8012 and AVR-X6500H, that could give you some ideas, or a rough guess as to what we can expect, though I think he made a typo on the transformer size difference, if he based it on the published power consumption specs, the two are actually very close, 780 W vs 750 W, still very minor differences especially if even just a 3 channel ext. power amp is used for the LCR. Regardless, in the past, so likely now as well, the main differences are the slightly large power supply, copper shielded chassis, and the HDAMs adopted in the Marantz version, other than those, the preamp/dac, DSP chips, opamps, and power amp boards are pretty much identical.

Someone just PM'ed me some new info, and that's good news for those who are keen on getting better DACs, it now appears that the AVC-X6800H is getting an ESS DAC IC that has much better specs than even the previous AKM one, and way better than the TI chips used in the SR8015 and AVC-X6700H (the ones made since the spring of 2021).

So, now D+M has two near flagship class AVR/C to choose from, Cinema 30, or AVR/C-X6800H that finally won't be dragged down (in terms of specs/measurements) by those TI DAC chips.

 

[Padrone_yo]

Hi guys, I am new on this forum although I am following the audiholics reviews and Gene's reviews on this website and on youtube channel, for some time now.
I thought to express some of my findings related to the new Cinema 30.
Although I do not have technical background, I have made a deep visual analysis in comparison between cinema 30 and both SR8015 and Cinema 40, based on the pictures & info made available on the internet, and it seems, to my eyes, that Cinema 30 uses quite different components (and electronic elements) and/or they are distributed differently on the corresponding boards.
I think that some of the differences are as follows:
1. HDAM-SA2 board in Cinema 30 seems different vs Cinema 40 and Sr8015, it seems more complex and cleaner;
2. The separate channel amp boards although looks similar with the other 2 avr, in Cinema 30 seems to use different electronic components
3. HDMI board is clearly different & better
4. Audio preamp board is different using 2 dacs from Ess (ES9017, better tha previusly used TI and AKM) and dual AD SHARC DSP
5. The heatsink is a little bigger compared to SR8015, as it has an increased no. of heat dissipation elements
6. The heatsink is cooper-plated for better heat transfer between the poweramps and the aluminum heatsink
7. The dimensions of Cinema 30 is a little different than Sr8015 being a little more bigger in width and hight (cinema 30 being a little bit heavier) and obviously bigger that Cinema 40.
8. Cinema 30 uses same Torroidal transformer as SR8015 vs EL one in Cinema 40
9. Cinema 30 uses new HEOS board vs. SR8015 (not sure if is different than Cinema 40)
10. Cinema 30 and SR8015 usses same 2x22,000uf cappacitors vs. 15000uf cappacitors used in Cinema 40.

I guess that now we can only wait for the bench testing results from Gene. Hope Gene will soon receive one pc. from Marants and I hope to find out that this is the AVR that we were looking for, at least for some of us.

@ Gene, it would be very nice if Marantz will help to deeply understand all the changes in this Cinema 30 versus other AVRs and what one should expect to get if decided to purchase it, after all is is marketed as "reference AVR" .
Thank you.

Have a nice day and good week ahead!