DSP "All Channel Stereo"

[Squishman]

I popped in a DVD of The Rockford Files and on my Onkyo RZ50 I wasn't hearing the great Mike Post theme song in my surrounds like I'd like. In fact, I am usually not satisfied with surround sound with this system. I want to hear more, a lot more sound from my surrounds. I built them myself about 15 years ago and they are quite fabulous, so I absolutely want to hear them. So, I set the RZ50 to "All Channel Stereo" and it sounds good this way. But, is it a bad DSP for normal use? I'd like to pick one and leave it for everything except for 2 channel music of course. I am never satisfied with the 1/2 dozen or so other options. They just don't cut the mustard.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe you just want louder? Surrounds aren't intended to be particularly loud or sharing same info as fronts. All channel stereo isn't surround, tho, its just repeated 2ch stereo in each pair and summed to center; I don't use it myself.

 

[Squishman]

That's what I was afraid of. I don't want stereo, I was hoping it wasn't really stereo, just a bad name for the dsp. My Denon system in the other room has a much better surround mix. I built those too. I built all my heights and surrounds. And they are fabulous. I'll try turning up the surrounds I guess. For Onkyo folks, or anyone who knows, what is a good dsp to stick to in a 5.1.2?

 

[lovinthehd]

What are you listening to? Movie/tv soundtracks? Multi-ch music? 2ch music? I tend to just decode the codec involved rather than a specific sound mode, maybe use Dolby or DTS sound modes to upmix 2ch music. My older Onkyo has some THX modes as well, sometimes I use one of those.

 

[Squishman]

Music, I always switch to 2 channel. This was a dvd of The Rockford Files .

 

[Eppie]

All channel stereo can give the sense of moving the front left and right channels to the sides, giving the impression that some vocals or instruments are to the left or right, but it's best used when you have decent sized surround speakers as the same level of signal is sent to the surrounds as the fronts. If you have smaller lower powered speakers for surrounds than you have to watch volume levels. It's a fun experiment with some songs but if you want the sense of surround music then the Dolby upmixer is probably the better option. You're free to try any surround mode you like. Whether it's All-channel stereo, DTS, Auro-3D, Neural-X, etx, they all sound different and some music works best with certain processors.

 

[lovinthehd]

Music, I always switch to 2 channel. This was a dvd of The Rockford Files .

Another thought is the mix of the Mike Post music might not have been ideal. Do you have a regular multich audio recording of it?

 

[Squishman]

Another thought is the mix of the Mike Post music might not have been ideal. Do you have a regular multich audio recording of it?

I have the complete song on an mp3 in stereo. But just in general, I don't get enough sound from my surrounds no matter what I am watching.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have the complete song on an mp3 in stereo. But just in general, I don't get enough sound from my surrounds no matter what I am watching.

Quad might be something that would use the second pair of speakers better? Could be a Mike Post recorded that way. Just not how surrounds are generally recorded to be prominent, more about effect/ambience.

 

[Trebdp83]

Don’t expect miracles from DVDs of old TV shows that were broadcast in Mono but might have a Dolby 2.0 track on DVD. Surround decoders can only do so much for them. Using the MOVIE/TV button on the remote controller, you can switch from Dolby Surround to DTS Neural:X and other proprietary modes like TV Logic on the Onkyo. You can also turn the center and front channel levels down a bit and the surrounds up a bit to your liking.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don’t expect miracles from DVDs of old TV shows that were broadcast in Mono but might have a Dolby 2.0 track on DVD. Surround decoders can only do so much for them. Using the MOVIE/TV button on the remote controller, you can switch from Dolby Surround to DTS Neural:X and other proprietary modes like TV Logic on the Onkyo. You can also turn the center and front channel levels down a bit and the surrounds up a bit to your liking.

I was wondering what the audio was on those dvds....

 

[Squishman]

Don’t expect miracles from DVDs of old TV shows that were broadcast in Mono but might have a Dolby 2.0 track on DVD. Surround decoders can only do so much for them. Using the MOVIE/TV button on the remote controller, you can switch from Dolby Surround to DTS Neural:X and other proprietary modes like TV Logic on the Onkyo. You can also turn the center and front channel levels down a bit and the surrounds up a bit to your liking.

That's what I'll do because it's not just that DVD. It is anything whether it be streaming or a DVD. I constantly switch using the MOVIE/TV button to see what sounds better, specifically what makes my surrounds come alive more. Some of the options don't employ all 7 channels, so those I don't bother with. Is "all channel stereo" meant mostly for music, maybe in a party setting? Doesn't seem right unless the center has a mix of L&R. Is there any program you just leave on at all times, besides music?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That's what I'll do because it's not just that DVD. It is anything whether it be streaming or a DVD. I constantly switch using the MOVIE/TV button to see what sounds better, specifically what makes my surrounds come alive more. Some of the options don't employ all 7 channels, so those I don't bother with. Is "all channel stereo" meant mostly for music, maybe in a party setting? Doesn't seem right unless the center has a mix of L&R. Is there any program you just leave on at all times, besides music?

Yeah. It’s kind of a party mode and I usually find it obnoxious. If you’re upmixing DTSnx might be a little more lively than DSU. Have you bumped the trims up? Of course that won’t add more content to the surrounds just make em louder. I also don’t like dynamicEQ, but that will boost the surrounds and heights(at least it does rear heights if you have four).
I watch all kinds of stuff and usually just use Dolby surround(DSU), sometimes DTSnx just for something different.

 

[TLS Guy]

That's what I'll do because it's not just that DVD. It is anything whether it be streaming or a DVD. I constantly switch using the MOVIE/TV button to see what sounds better, specifically what makes my surrounds come alive more. Some of the options don't employ all 7 channels, so those I don't bother with. Is "all channel stereo" meant mostly for music, maybe in a party setting? Doesn't seem right unless the center has a mix of L&R. Is there any program you just leave on at all times, besides music?

That all channel stereo mode is not a serious listening mode. It puts two channel stereo to all your speakers and really stresses your receiver, and is good way to ruin them.

In a dedicated multi channel recording only the signal directed by the mix engineer will go to each speaker. In a properly calibrated system, that is the power they will get.

In up mixed modes like DDD Sur, the up mixer tries to recreate the ambient field, but obviously there is mch less power in the ambient field than the forward field.

As I remember your surround speakers, they were old diminutive Radio Shack speakers with updated crossovers. So it would not take much power to blow them to bits.

I am pretty sure that if I played my disc of intense Laplander drumming on your rig, you would have silent surrounds in a few seconds, and be looking at replacements.

 

[highfigh]

Quad might be something that would use the second pair of speakers better? Could be a Mike Post recorded that way. Just not how surrounds are generally recorded to be prominent, more about effect/ambience.

Quad went out with a whimper, I don't know why it would have been recorded in that mode. Also, most people didn't pipe the audio from their TV through their audio systems at that time because most TVs had no audio line out. I would think that if it's in anything other than monaural, it was done for the disc. This makes me curious to know if it's broadcast in something other than mono- I'll check it next time I see that it's on.

 

[Trebdp83]

That's what I'll do because it's not just that DVD. It is anything whether it be streaming or a DVD. I constantly switch using the MOVIE/TV button to see what sounds better, specifically what makes my surrounds come alive more. Some of the options don't employ all 7 channels, so those I don't bother with. Is "all channel stereo" meant mostly for music, maybe in a party setting? Doesn't seem right unless the center has a mix of L&R. Is there any program you just leave on at all times, besides music?

Yes, ALL CH STEREO is more of a party mode and as mentioned, can stress the receiver and speakers at loud volume with certain crossover settings. If using Dolby Surround, check your audio settings and turn Dolby Loudness Management OFF. You can use the Quick Settings button on the remote controller to adjust channel levels for the currently selected Source device. The new settings will not be retained after switching to another source and AccuEQ or Dirac settings will not be lost.

There is no set it and forget it setting for me. Dolby Atmos signals get a straight Dolby Atmos decode. Dolby Surround mode is used often but, depending on the signal, dialogue bleed can occur and then I switch to DTS Virtual:X. Those with actual height speakers connected and assigned to amps would use DTS Neural:X and Virtual:X would be unavailable to them. Two channel music is usually played back in STEREO mode and occasionally up mixed with Dolby Surround.

How an old TV show is delivered OTA these days will vary from place to place and set top boxes like other devices and TVs can switch from bitstream to PCM 2.0 output. One of my local stations broadcasts in Dolby Surround EX and my receiver reports a Dolby 6.1 signal. Dolby offset is also along for the ride and I set my TiVo to output in PCM 2.0 instead to improve volume output and just up mix the signal. Sometimes I just use TV Logic mode.They are mostly old reruns anyway.

 

[Squishman]

As I remember your surround speakers, they were old diminutive Radio Shack speakers with updated crossovers. So it would not take much power to blow them to bits.

I am pretty sure that if I played my disc of intense Laplander drumming on your rig, you would have silent surrounds in a few seconds, and be looking at replacements.

I take your point, but these particular surrounds are more robust than a run o' the mill Radio Shack speaker. The only thing Radio Shack about them now are the cabs. The output on them is just incredible. But way too harsh to use as mains. I tried that years ago, before I got into vintage Klipsch. As surrounds, I love them.
This set were Minimus 77's (5" woofers). Then I put metal cone woofers with massive magnets, M & K tweeters and a crossover from a guy who sold hundreds of his kits on eBay. That guy has disappeared, but he was very active on eBay until around 5 years ago.
All of my surrounds and heights and also the set I have connected to my vintage Marantz integrated amp all started life as Radio Shack Minimus 7 except the one set which were M77's. Plus another set so that makes 6 sets I built. I think 2 sets have $20 crossovers from Amazon though. All sets have the same tweeters. I am a fan of them! Fortunately I still have 2 pair of those (not the damaged ones, new!) that I might use someday. Not that I need more of these. I certainly do not.
Good to know that the All Channel Stereo DSP setting is not recommended!

 

[Squishman]

Yes, ALL CH STEREO is more of a party mode and as mentioned, can stress the receiver and speakers at loud volume with certain crossover settings. If using Dolby Surround, check your audio settings and turn Dolby Loudness Management OFF. You can use the Quick Settings button on the remote controller to adjust channel levels for the currently selected Source device. The new settings will not be retained after switching to another source and AccuEQ or Dirac settings will not be lost.

There is no set it and forget it setting for me. Dolby Atmos signals get a straight Dolby Atmos decode. Dolby Surround mode is used often but, depending on the signal, dialogue bleed can occur and then I switch to DTS Virtual:X. Those with actual height speakers connected and assigned to amps would use DTS Neural:X and Virtual:X would be unavailable to them. Two channel music is usually played back in STEREO mode and occasionally up mixed with Dolby Surround.

How an old TV show is delivered OTA these days will vary from place to place and set top boxes like other devices and TVs can switch from bitstream to PCM 2.0 output. One of my local stations broadcasts in Dolby Surround EX and my receiver reports a Dolby 6.1 signal. Dolby offset is also along for the ride and I set my TiVo to output in PCM 2.0 instead to improve volume output and just up mix the signal. Sometimes I just use TV Logic mode.They are mostly old reruns anyway.

Excellent info! Thx.

 

[lovinthehd]

Quad went out with a whimper, I don't know why it would have been recorded in that mode. Also, most people didn't pipe the audio from their TV through their audio systems at that time because most TVs had no audio line out. I would think that if it's in anything other than monaural, it was done for the disc. This makes me curious to know if it's broadcast in something other than mono- I'll check it next time I see that it's on.

Many multich SACDs are quad based, some DVD-Audio discs. Not the tv show particularly, but am curious what it was recorded in....

 

[Squishman]

Yes, ALL CH STEREO is more of a party mode and as mentioned, can stress the receiver and speakers at loud volume with certain crossover settings. If using Dolby Surround, check your audio settings and turn Dolby Loudness Management OFF. You can use the Quick Settings button on the remote controller to adjust channel levels for the currently selected Source device. The new settings will not be retained after switching to another source and AccuEQ or Dirac settings will not be lost.

There is no set it and forget it setting for me. Dolby Atmos signals get a straight Dolby Atmos decode. Dolby Surround mode is used often but, depending on the signal, dialogue bleed can occur and then I switch to DTS Virtual:X. Those with actual height speakers connected and assigned to amps would use DTS Neural:X and Virtual:X would be unavailable to them. Two channel music is usually played back in STEREO mode and occasionally up mixed with Dolby Surround.

How an old TV show is delivered OTA these days will vary from place to place and set top boxes like other devices and TVs can switch from bitstream to PCM 2.0 output. One of my local stations broadcasts in Dolby Surround EX and my receiver reports a Dolby 6.1 signal. Dolby offset is also along for the ride and I set my TiVo to output in PCM 2.0 instead to improve volume output and just up mix the signal. Sometimes I just use TV Logic mode.They are mostly old reruns anyway.

How do I set the levels so the settings are retained?