Adding an external power amplifier

[philly]

You meant about -58 degrees for the phase angle at 88 Hz?

Thank you so much it does help clarify things! I appreciate it everybody

 

[philly]

And this would be seen as different by the amplifier, how? Net impedance would be LPz+HPz=Totalz, right?

Just curious about what you mean by wrong cables? I use pretty much all AudioQuest speaker and xlr cables. Are there better ones you would suggest?

 

[lovinthehd]

Just curious about what you mean by wrong cables? I use pretty much all AudioQuest speaker and xlr cables. Are there better ones you would suggest?

Fraudioquest has no particular advantage at all. XLR is just a connection type and of limited advantage depending on gear.

 

[philly]

Fraudioquest has no particular advantage at all. XLR is just a connection type and of limited advantage depending on gear.

So what reasonable priced cables do you recommend? I can't afford Kimber!

 

[lovinthehd]

So what reasonable priced cables do you recommend? I can't afford Kimber!

There are many. You just don't want the very bottom end generally. Gauge will determine speaker wire needs and all you need is copper (OFC is not particularly necessary, ETP is more than fine). Try this site for things speaker wire from an ex-director of McIntosh http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I wouldn't replace the cables, Fraudioquest is generally just fine, just extremely overpriced for what it is. If its some of their stuff with electronics/batteries in-line those I'd get rid of.....

Kimber can be cheaper than Fraudioquest and some of the other cable charlatans (like Nordost, MIT, SR, etc), but I still wouldn't buy it. I use Monoprice for bulk 12g and put my own connectors on for speaker wire (as it covers most of my needs with one type of wire). For interconnects Monoprice, Mediabridge and WBF are good choices, something a little more bespoke maybe Blue Jeans Cable. Traditional pro outfits like Belden and others are generally good value in bulk, too.

 

[philly]

There are many. You just don't want the very bottom end generally. Gauge will determine speaker wire needs and all you need is copper (OFC is not particularly necessary, ETP is more than fine). Try this site for things speaker wire from an ex-director of McIntosh http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I wouldn't replace the cables, Fraudioquest is generally just fine, just extremely overpriced for what it is. If its some of their stuff with electronics/batteries in-line those I'd get rid of.....

Kimber can be cheaper than Fraudioquest and some of the other cable charlatans (like Nordost, MIT, SR, etc), but I still wouldn't buy it. I use Monoprice for bulk 12g and put my own connectors on for speaker wire (as it covers most of my needs with one type of wire). For interconnects Monoprice, Mediabridge and WBF are good choices, something a little more bespoke maybe Blue Jeans Cable. Traditional pro outfits like Belden and others are generally good value in bulk, too.

Thanks! Gene you can put compression banana plugs on the end of speaker wire going to your amp [to prevent shorts] but he recommends bare wire at the speaker end, do you agree? I'm using all bare wire now

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks! Gene you can put compression banana plugs on the end of speaker wire going to your amp [to prevent shorts] but he recommends bare wire at the speaker end, do you agree? I'm using all bare wire now

The only real advantage to a banana plug is if you change it out a lot. Bare wire is essentially ideal. Wide variety of banana type plugs (it is not a standard) are available for self-install....

 

[PENG]

As Peng just noted the 702 S2 plot, note the similarities between the 802D2 and the 603S3
View attachment 67422
View attachment 67423

This is definitely part of their design philosophy as I've seen it since the introduction of the 800 Nautilus series.

@AcuDefTechGuy had one of those monsters and iirc he drove his with a Denon AVR, just the 3000 series, and I don't remember if he used it with his sub(s) and would be interested in his crossover setting, as well as volume setting for normal listening. Very curious how he managed to sell them eventually, before damaging his AVR and/or the diamond tweeter.

Here's what one of those monsters could potentially do to lesser power amps, and to themselves:

Just look at what JA noted:

The magnitude drops to 3 ohms between 100 and 130Hz, and again between 670 and 770Hz; and while the electrical phase angle is low in the lower region, it becomes increasingly inductive above 600Hz, reaching +46° at 1kHz, where the magnitude is 4 ohms. There is also a combination of 4 ohms and –64° at 69Hz, implying that this speaker does require an amplifier that is not upset by a low effective impedance.

The EPDR for those 800 diamonds must be below 3 or 2, even 1.5 ohms, though again it would be misleading to think that it would take as much current that a 2 ohm resistor load would, it really wouldn't, as the lower number simply tells you it would result in as much peak dissipation as the lower impedance number would.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@AcuDefTechGuy had one of those monsters and iirc he drove his with a Denon AVR, just the 3000 series, and I don't remember if he used it with his sub(s) and would be interested in his crossover setting, as well as volume setting for normal listening. Very curious how he managed to sell them eventually, before damaging his AVR and/or the diamond tweeter.

I used the Denon 3000 series on the B&W 802D2 and Revel Salon2. I did use dual subs and the XO on the Denon was set to 80Hz, 100Hz, or 120Hz. I can't remember exactly, but those are the usual numbers I use.

No tweeters or any drivers were ever damaged by me.

Now the first set of 802D2's tweeter was damaged by the DELIVERY guys. So it was a delivery damage before ever being hooked up to anything.

For volume, my TOTAL overall SPL volume is usually 90-105dB, but this is TOTAL volume of all speakers and subs. So not sure what the INDIVIDUAL B&W 802D2 or Salon2 volume was.

 

[highfigh]

Just curious about what you mean by wrong cables? I use pretty much all AudioQuest speaker and xlr cables. Are there better ones you would suggest?

Can you post my comment, to provide context? If my comments had to do with XLR vs RCA when the equipment is in close proximity, RCA works fine, as long as the cable provides virtually zero resistance, capacitance and inductance and has no pinches, kinks or other damage and the ends are soldered or cold welded properly. For speaker cable, the gauge can handle the signal and it needs to be free of the characteristics I mentioned previously. I'm brand agnostic because the claims made by marketing departments are almost always wrong.

Do your cables have batteries? Ever look into that BS?

They have a 6' HDMI cable with batteries that retails for $1500 and they claim that it improves the audio. The last price I saw for the 6' audio interconnects was $4999 for the 48V version, $6999 for the 72V. I also saw the dealer price sheet at that time and IMO, any dealer who sells them for full price is a whore with no integrity.

I want a good explanation for this stuff in real technical terms, with facts, tests and REAL concepts, not marketing claims. I was visiting friends in Arizona and one day, we went to hang out with the other members of his band, all of whom are/were Electrical Engineers who worked for various Defense Department contractors, designing circuits for missile guidance systems, detection/RADAR, test equipment and much of this involved nuclear hardened circuits. They ALL looked at me as if I was insane when I told them what was claimed.

 

[highfigh]

No tweeters or any drivers were ever damaged by me.

Now the first set of 802D2's tweeter was damaged by the DELIVERY guys. So it was a delivery damage before ever being hooked up to anything.

How the heck did the delivery apes damage your tweeter?

 

[everettT]

@AcuDefTechGuy had one of those monsters and iirc he drove his with a Denon AVR, just the 3000 series, and I don't remember if he used it with his sub(s) and would be interested in his crossover setting, as well as volume setting for normal listening. Very curious how he managed to sell them eventually, before damaging his AVR and/or the diamond tweeter.

Here's what one of those monsters could potentially do to lesser power amps, and to themselves:

Just look at what JA noted:



The EPDR for those 800 diamonds must be below 3 or 2, even 1.5 ohms, though again it would be misleading to think that it would take as much current that a 2 ohm resistor load would, it really wouldn't, as the lower number simply tells you it would result in as much peak dissipation as the lower impedance number would.

View attachment 67451

I'd bet the EPDR is, would be, below 2 ohms.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How the heck did the delivery apes damage your tweeter?

I guess they weren't gentle enough with handling the speakers.

 

[highfigh]

I guess they weren't gentle enough with handling the speakers.

Was the box punctured?

 

[PENG]

I used the Denon 3000 series on the B&W 802D2 and Revel Salon2. I did use dual subs and the XO on the Denon was set to 80Hz, 100Hz, or 120Hz. I can't remember exactly, but those are the usual numbers I use.

No tweeters or any drivers were ever damaged by me.

Now the first set of 802D2's tweeter was damaged by the DELIVERY guys. So it was a delivery damage before ever being hooked up to anything.

For volume, my TOTAL overall SPL volume is usually 90-105dB, but this is TOTAL volume of all speakers and subs. So not sure what the INDIVIDUAL B&W 802D2 or Salon2 volume was.

What's your typical master volume? For me it's about -25 to -15 when I had the Denon or Marantz. Obviously it depends on the level trims, but in my case, for the main towers they were rarely more than +/- 2 dB.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Was the box punctured?

No the box was not damaged. The box looked very new to me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's your typical master volume? For me it's about -25 to -15 when I had the Denon or Marantz. Obviously it depends on the level trims, but in my case, for the main towers they were rarely more than +/- 2 dB.

I was using the SPL meter to measure the volume a lot of times.

I just looked at my notes that I had written down on my phone on 4/23/2013. It looks like my max SPL volume was 107dB (song was Crystalized by Lindsey Stirling).

My master volume has always been -20 to -30, but my trims are set 5dB higher (80dB) than what Audyssey sets (75dB). The reason was because Audyssey Dynamic EQ produced more bass when I set the trims higher.

 

[Verdinut]

I guess they weren't gentle enough with handling the speakers.

That shouldn't happen when the speaker is securely packaged in a sturdy box, even if it was dropped.

 

[everettT]

That shouldn't happen when the speaker is securely packaged in a sturdy box, even if it was dropped.

Almost like it might have left the factory that way. (Or opened and repacked)

 

[Verdinut]

Almost like it might have left the factory that way. (Or opened and repacked)

I have three Altec 604-8Gs in excellent working condition to sell. They belonged to my best friend who died 4 years ago. If you know someone who might be interested, let him know. I will be listing them within a couple of weeks on eBay.