First REW test result of subwoofer(single REL)

[keenly]

Does this look correct?

I am testing 20-90hz with Rel t/i 9 sub, which is off to my right, close to middle of wall, but a couple of feet in front. Room is 14.9x 15.2x8ft.
I am using umik 1 and MarantzSR8012.

 

[ski2xblack]

Don't be too shocked at the resulting +/-15db response. Square room dimensions exaggerate modes. And keep in mind that that single sweep is but one slice of a much bigger pie, perhaps one of the more egregious slices, so take a few more measurements to get an idea what's going on.

You will benefit from using REW while following the "crawling for bass" approach for finding the best location for the sub relative to your main listening position. Hopefully, changes in placement can achieve better results than that single first sweep.

If you want less modal lumpiness over more area, consider adding a second sub.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd try more measurement positions. Was Audyssey used for setup? Then again I'm not at all impressed by Rel generally.

 

[TLS Guy]

Does this look correct?

I am testing 20-90hz with Rel t/i 9 sub, which is off to my right, close to middle of wall, but a couple of feet in front. Room is 14.9x 15.2x8ft.
I am using umik 1 and MarantzSR8012.

From the dimension you gave your fist room mode is 37 Hz, and the second is 75 Hz. That is close to what you observed.

The sub though is barely a sub, in fact I would not regard it as such, but a bass module. According to the specs the F6 is 27 Hz. It is an ABR design, and they roll off at 36 db per octave. So F3 is going to be north of 30 Hz. The speck sheet is not very informative except to give the 6db down point. So we don't know the design of the driver, but I'm suspicious from what you measured is has a high inductance, which would make the sub a one note special, like you see in that graph.

So, your best bet is to try apply a lot of Eq. Now there will be severe limits to improvement. The top of that peak coincides with the F3 of that sub design given -6db at 27 Hz. The sub is rolling off at 36 db per octave below that peak as predicted from its ABR design. Now since an ABR is a tuned design you can not apply Eq below F3, as you just get useless cone excursion and damage the driver. You can apply Eq judiciously above the 34 Hz peak.

I fear your options for improvement though are somewhat constrained.

 

[keenly]

From the dimension you gave your fist room mode is 37 Hz, and the second is 75 Hz. That is close to what you observed.

The sub though is barely a sub, in fact I would not regard it as such, but a bass module. According to the specs the F6 is 27 Hz. It is an ABR design, and they roll off at 36 db per octave. So F3 is going to be north of 30 Hz. The speck sheet is not very informative except to give the 6db down point. So we don't know the design of the driver, but I'm suspicious from what you measured is has a high inductance, which would make the sub a one note special, like you see in that graph.

So, your best bet is to try apply a lot of Eq. Now there will be severe limits to improvement. The top of that peak coincides with the F3 of that sub design given -6db at 27 Hz. The sub is rolling off at 36 db per octave below that peak as predicted from its ABR design. Now since an ABR is a tuned design you can not apply Eq below F3, as you just get useless cone excursion and damage the driver. You can apply Eq judiciously above the 34 Hz peak.

I fear your options for improvement though are somewhat constrained.

I love getting feedback from those who know far more than me, cheers.I am still learning, and it can be quite frustrating but I do want to comprehend the teechnical details and try to implement viable solutions.

So you would get new subs? https://rel.net/uk/shop/serie-ti/t9i/

I have 2 of these, 1 turned on right now.

 

[keenly]

I'd try more measurement positions. Was Audyssey used for setup? Then again I'm not at all impressed by Rel generally.

No EQ on right now. Tried the sub in many spots, with no testing, just hear and it sounded bad. This spot is where I can not isolate it during music or movies. Front of the room meant you could tell the sub was on

 

[keenly]

Don't be too shocked at the resulting +/-15db response. Square room dimensions exaggerate modes. And keep in mind that that single sweep is but one slice of a much bigger pie, perhaps one of the more egregious slices, so take a few more measurements to get an idea what's going on.

You will benefit from using REW while following the "crawling for bass" approach for finding the best location for the sub relative to your main listening position. Hopefully, changes in placement can achieve better results than that single first sweep.

If you want less modal lumpiness over more area, consider adding a second sub.

I have 2 subs. I positioned this one based on hearing, after trying several spots. The other one is not one right now. Certain music had overwhelming kick drum sounds, thus I thought it must be my room and not the engineer's incompetance. I only just started testing yesterday.

 

[TLS Guy]

I love getting feedback from those who know far more than me, cheers.I am still learning, and it can be quite frustrating but I do want to comprehend the teechnical details and try to implement viable solutions.

So you would get new subs? https://rel.net/uk/shop/serie-ti/t9i/

I have 2 of these, 1 turned on right now.

Well, in all honesty, I suspect those subs are dead ringer loosers. First of all they can not be legitimately called subs. With an F6 of 27 Hz, and being an ABR the response falling off a cliff at 36 db per octave above 30 Hz, it is not very promising is it?

 

[keenly]

Well, in all honesty, I suspect those subs are dead ringer loosers. First of all they can not be legitimately called subs. With an F6 of 27 Hz, and being an ABR the response falling off a cliff at 36 db per octave above 30 Hz, it is not very promising is it?

Recommendations? I paid £1200 for these 2.

 

[ski2xblack]

This spot is where I can not isolate it during music or movies.

This seems to indicate more of a calibration issue, separate from the room mode issue. If the sub's lpf is set appropriately it should not be localizable regardless of where it's actually located. Crossed at 80 Hz or below should be good, but if you have it crossed at 120 Hz you'll notice where it's at. In addition, I noticed that the lpf in the REL is only 12db/octave, so if you're using that (as opposed to the typically steeper lpf in your processor), then you may have to set it even lower to avoid it being localizable.

 

[TLS Guy]

Recommendations? I paid £1200 for these 2.

REL subs are made by BK electronics at Southend on Sea Essex. In the UK the rooms are small, so they have now concentrated in small footprint units.

However they still have some very promising subs. This one will do the job for you. I suspect you will only need one. F3 is 20 Hz.

There is no point in getting into puny subs, they are pretty much guaranteed to disappoint.

 

[TLS Guy]

This seems to indicate more of a calibration issue, separate from the room mode issue. If the sub's lpf is set appropriately it should not be localizable regardless of where it's actually located. Crossed at 80 Hz or below should be good, but if you have it crossed at 120 Hz you'll notice where it's at. In addition, I noticed that the lpf in the REL is only 12db/octave, so if you're using that (as opposed to the typically steeper lpf in your processor), then you may have to set it even lower to avoid it being localizable.

With that kind of peaked response, you will isolate it. I would not be surprised if that unit was also generating some harmonics. The third harmonic will predominate at 102 Hz. The fifth harmonic at 170 Hz might also be audible.

 

[lovinthehd]

REL subs are made by BK electronics at Southend on Sea Essex. In the UK the rooms are small, so they have now concentrated in small footprint units.

However they still have some very promising subs. This one will do the job for you. I suspect you will only need one. F3 is 20 Hz.

There is no point in getting into puny subs, they are pretty much guaranteed to disappoint.

Are you saying Rel contracts out the manufacturing to BK Electronics? Hadn't heard that before....

 

[TLS Guy]

Are you saying Rel contracts out the manufacturing to BK Electronics? Hadn't heard that before....

Yes, I am. And some of the subs are identical with a different logo.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, I am. And some of the subs are identical with a different logo.

Interesting, found this https://www.bkelec.com/about_us.htm

From what I've seen in the past, BK is the better choice anyways, not just on price.