JL Audio f110 Measurements & Analysis
I moved the f110s outdoors to conduct some 1 meter groundplane measurements. I tested extension vs SPL by varying the input drive until I heard any audible distortion emanating from the sub.
Fathom f110 (left graph); Axiom EP400 (right graph)
1 meter Groundplane measurement (no smoothing)
The output was very clean for the “low2”, “mid2” and “high2” traces with a slight hint of audible woofer strain below 30Hz for the “high2” trace. I didn’t detect any cabinet noise or leaks during my testing. I bumped the input level up a bit more for the “max” trace to see how much usable output I could achieve and found the f110 remained very clean until it swept below 30Hz. At that point the woofer was simply trying to play beyond its excursion limits. -3dB point appeared to be around 25Hz with a fairly steep (but expected for a sealed design) roll off of about 25dB per octave below that. Many DSP controlled subs tend to inject a brickwall filter right below the -3dB point such as the Axiom EP400. While this is certainly a valid design approach, especially for small drivers, I prefer the more gradual roll off that JL Audio employed on their f110. In my opinion it’s important to not simply discard low frequency bass info as a natural roll off below the -3dB point tends to improve tactile response. Inserting a brickwall HPF can result in negative temporal consequences of the signal in the range where our hearing is most sensitive to phase.
For comparative purposes, I pulled some measurements under the same test conditions for my Axiom EP400s. As you can see in the graphs, the f110 has considerably more output than the Axiom EP400 (+6dB more below 30Hz and between 10-14dB in the 40-80Hz range), but the EP400 exhibits flatter response above 30Hz than the f110 all the way out to 120Hz. Considering that the f110 has a bigger driver (10” vs 8”), larger enclosure, and is nearly double the price, it indicates that the EP400 is quite a potent little subwoofer.
I found it a bit puzzling that the f110 exhibited around -5dB of rolloff at 100Hz despite I had the LPF on the subwoofer disabled. This was especially vexing since the f112 measured flat to 100Hz in our testing which utilizes a larger driver. This measurement anomaly seemed to contradict the JL Audio -3dB at 120Hz published specification. Above 80Hz the f110 exhibited an 18dB/octave rolloff. When I questioned JL Audio engineering on this they said it was deliberate as the sub simply sounds better and plays cleaner by introducing this roll off. Using a high mass driver (with a large, high inductive voice coil) like the W7 JL Audio employed here, its understandable why. I personally feel the part of the reason why some subwoofers tend to sound “faster” is related to its output above 80Hz and how it preserves the harmonic content of the bass frequencies. Because of this issue, I deducted ½ point from my final performance rating for this product. It is a good idea to experiment with the crossover in your A/V receiver / processor by setting it higher than 80Hz and/or possibly defeating it, especially when placing two f110s as a stereo pair configuration near your front main channels like JL Audio recommends.
Editorial Note on f110 Bandwidth from Brett Hanes (JL Audio Senior Research Engineer)
While the baseline response above 80 Hz is somewhat rolled off compared to other subs you’ve tested, the ARO Calibration will significantly alter this condition. To elaborate on this point, listeners usually set the sub level according to its mid-band response (50-70 Hz). When this level gets pulled down by the ARO due to room-mode involvement (pretty common), the subsequent automatic level compensation will adjust for a similar mid-band level as before. Since the mid-band was cut by the system, this will bring up the "tails," effectively extending the sub's bandwidth. This can be seen in your own "with and without" ARO plots in the review and is always quite evident when you measure the subs by themselves after Calibration.
Our survey of dealers, installers and end-users indicates that the vast majority use our ARO feature, and they feel it improves performance dramatically. Calibration results in a substantial modification of the baseline response and produces an effective bandwidth extension. As a result, this can enhance the usability of the F110s with smallish satellite speaker systems. They will perform very well together in most room circumstances.
Since I don’t yet have the ability to accurately measure distortion vs SPL on my test gear, I asked JL Audio to provide me their data which is tabulated below. Also attached via a PDF file is their SPL vs distortion data plotted in MATLAB.
| Frequency | Vinput for SPLmax (dBV) | Vinput (volts RMS) | SPLmax (RMS) | THD @ SPLmax (%) | SPL RMS (10%) |
| 25 | -12.5 | 0.237 | 101.032 | 19.15 | 93.954 |
| 30 | -11.5 | 0.266 | 104.77 | 15.15 | 98.8 |
| 40 | -7 | 0.447 | 110.7 | 12.18 | 108.1 |
| 50 | -2 | 0.794 | 115.63 | 11.43 | 114.79 |
| 60 | 0 | 1.000 | 116.23 | 5.66 | N/A |
| 70 | 0.5 | 1.059 | 115.64 | 4.08 | N/A |
| 80 | 0.5 | 1.059 | 114.62 | 5.2 | N/A |
Max SPL vs Distortion Tests
Tested by Brett Hanes & Eric Krumme
The 1 meter ground plane signal amplitude is equivalent to a 1 meter, half space (2pi) test.
If you look at their data at 25Hz, you will see they measured 101dB max SPL and about 94dB at 10% THD which coincides closely with my “max2” and “med2” SPL plots, respectively. At higher SPL levels below 30Hz is where I started to hear woofer straining mostly because the W7 woofer reached its excursion limits. 10% THD is an industry standard threshold for measuring subwoofer distortion. While this limit can be audible with continuous sine wave sweeps, it is likely not audible with real program material. Above 25Hz, JL Audio reports much higher SPL #s than I measured. The reason for this is my sweeps were conducted at a constant input level across the entire bandwidth whereas JL Audio conducted discrete max SPL tests per frequency tested by varying the input level until they measured 10% distortion. This is a much more accurate way of testing max SPL as the frequency sweep tests I conducted are limited to the subwoofers low end output capability which rolls off drastically on the f110 below 30Hz. In the future I will add this test methodology to my reviews once my Audio Precision APx585 analyzer is upgraded to measure loudspeaker distortion.
Noise Leakage Test
When I ran low frequency sweeps from 300Hz down to 20Hz up to levels causing the f110 woofer to reach its excursion limits. At all power levels, I didn’t detect and leakage noise or cabinet rattling which is a tribute to how well put together this product is.
f110 with (green) and without (purple) E.L.F. boost
The f110 has an adjustable boost (+3dB) /cut (-12dB) feature centered at 28Hz which they refer to as E.L.F.(Extreme Low Frequency trim,; not to be confused with subwoofer manufacturer Bag End whom uses a similar name for their version and to my knowledge was the first to call it such). As you can see in the graph, with an ELF boost of +2dB the entire output did go with, especially below 28Hz as claimed by JL Audio. This is a useful feature to tame bass modes which are a common occurrence in that frequency range, especially when sitting near a back wall. It’s also equally useful for giving your low end a little boost if needed especially when dealing with anemically bass challenged music content or fighting non ideal subwoofer placement in your theater room.
See also:
Recent Forum Posts:
I suggest this sub to anyone with the funds and lack of desire for the effort required to orchestrate a DIY project.
Chris this really is an exceptional deal commercially speaking. Can a kappa style box with the 12w7 best it? I'd be willing to bet so. But seriously it's not as simple as it's stated. Even coordinating such a project costs money and time. Ordering a JL Audio takes a click and a check.
bandphan;591657
The head up the arse comment prompted me to re-post the challenge,
That comment was simply an outburst of my annoyance that so many people prefer to just buy a name brand pre-made item, rather than do minimal work to end up with much more for their money. No DIY is even needed in many case - as you can have the box easily built by any car audio shop for cheap and I offer to guide anyone along the process - or they can even choose among pre-fabbed/prefinished cabinets from some sources.
Sometimes you come across as a demi god, especially when discussing products you havent measured or listened to.
scott
I can understand why some people may think I am crazy to discuss products I have not personally analyzed. But when someone gets to the level of knowledge that I have in regards to physical behaviour/limits of specific construction and principles and the measured result expectations, it's just no mystery at all to me; I know the specific limitations and potential performance possible - and I can accurately make comments based on these pre-known performance windows. Of course, an unknown factor could throw me way off base... but in the case of the Fathom F113 and the JTR speaker in another thread... I have seen no evidence of a special factor/variable being present that would allow for something I can't already accurately guess. In the case of the Fathom 113; it's already been measured accurately b a credible 3rd party (so I have extensive data on it's actual performance) add I have used 'raw' JL audio drivers, including W7 units (same tech used in the Fathom, with minor changes), I know their performance abilities/limits.
-Chris
WmAx;591408
If you apply this to me, I don't poke fun at anyone, not in any serious way. I don' t know about 'twice the performance' of the Fathom for 1/2 the price, I have never made any such claim as possible with a sealed cabinet of comparable size to the Fathom, but you can certainly build it's equal for about 1/2 or a bit more the price. There is no secret to this: you can buy a variant of the W7 13" driver JL used in the Fathom for about $600. You can build a virtual clone of the unit for just a tad over 1/2 the cost of the authorized retailer selling price of the Fathom 13", and the DIY will be superior because the DSP I will specify will be more powerful and have more capabilities to seamlessly integrate the subwoofer with the main speakers. Although, 'auto' setup feature will not be present - you will have to do manual setup instead. The amplification and processing hardware will be external, not internal to the sub, as I am not aware of an appropriate internal mounting set up for this subwoofer that is available to the general public.
You can even exceed the JL version if the person wants to go to a larger cabinet size and go ported; LF output will be dramatically increased and distortion radically reduced. If cabinet size is increased, one can even mount the pro-amp and processing unit into the cabinet.
This sounds so bold and impressive, but it's not. Why would anyone spend $1500-$1700 to build a sub and send it off to some person just to look superior on an internet post? How could the DIY version be any worse than the commercial one? You are using the same technology driver and using superior amplification and DSP hardware. You could even exceed it if an Audiopulse ULTRA LMS or AXIS driver was available in 13", but they are not, and it would be 'cheating' to use the 15" version against the 13" W7. But if you want to compare to the 12" Fathom, then there are 12" LMS ULTRA and AXIS drivers available - which are superior to the W7 drivers - as verified in Klippel analysis.
-Chris
my point was is, has anyone taken craig up on this? I have zero doubt that a better sub can be built with 3db more output with a large ported design, but does anyone in the dyi group(which includes me) want to take the challenge? The head up the arse comment prompted me to re-post the challenge, as some just do not care to go dyi or want a one box small footprint solution regardless of the cost, thats all. I guess some are not wanting to be called dumb arses beacuse they dont want to follow your end all design plans. Its nothing personal, as i respect your ability to build high quality products. Sometimes you come across as a demi god, especially when discussing products you havent measured or listened to.
scott
bandphan;591324
Quote:Originally Posted by craigsub
Manville is correct.
It is ridiculous to have to continue to tolerate these meaningless posts from people who have never even auditioned a Fathom, and who have no interest in one, either.
This trend to poke fun at people buying the Fathom for "having more money than sense" and the constant claims of "I could build a sub with twice the performance for half the price" gets really old.
If you apply this to me, I don't poke fun at anyone, not in any serious way. I don' t know about 'twice the performance' of the Fathom for 1/2 the price, I have never made any such claim as possible with a sealed cabinet of comparable size to the Fathom, but you can certainly build it's equal for about 1/2 or a bit more the price. There is no secret to this: you can buy a variant of the W7 13" driver JL used in the Fathom for about $600. You can build a virtual clone of the unit for just a tad over 1/2 the cost of the authorized retailer selling price of the Fathom 13", and the DIY will be superior because the DSP I will specify will be more powerful and have more capabilities to seamlessly integrate the subwoofer with the main speakers. Although, 'auto' setup feature will not be present - you will have to do manual setup instead. The amplification and processing hardware will be external, not internal to the sub, as I am not aware of an appropriate internal mounting set up for this subwoofer that is available to the general public.
You can even exceed the JL version if the person wants to go to a larger cabinet size and go ported; LF output will be dramatically increased and distortion radically reduced. If cabinet size is increased, one can even mount the pro-amp and processing unit into the cabinet.
When called upon to prove it, of course there is a plethora of excuses why the DIY guru cannot do so. I particularly like the "I cannot afford to build you a subwoofer" excuse. Afterall, based on the claims, I would be doubling the DIY guy's money when purchasing the sub from him.
This sounds so bold and impressive, but it's not. Why would anyone spend $1500-$1700 to build a sub and send it off to some person just to look superior on an internet post? How could the DIY version be any worse than the commercial one? You are using the same technology driver and using superior amplification and DSP hardware. You could even exceed it if an Audiopulse ULTRA LMS or AXIS driver was available in 13", but they are not, and it would be 'cheating' to use the 15" version against the 13" W7. But if you want to compare to the 12" Fathom, then there are 12" LMS ULTRA and AXIS drivers available - which are superior to the W7 drivers - as verified in Klippel analysis.
-Chris
