JL Audio f110 Set-Up & Installation
Before connecting the f110s to my system, I took them outdoors and conducted 1 meter groundplane measurements. I found one of my f110s exhibited excessive cabinet noise below 40Hz at high SPL levels. When I took it inside to test on my A/V system, I found at times the sub would simply oscillate out of control with no input signal. I immediately informed JL Audio of my findings and they not only decisively replaced that defective subwoofer but they insisted upon building me up two brand new ones. I received the second set of subwoofers less than one week later both of which operated flawlessly in my testing.
Moving the f110s around my family room was a bit of a
chore for me. Despite their manageable
physical size, they were quite heavy as I mentioned earlier. Before placing the f110s into the most
practical and useful positions in my room, I referenced their user manual and
was pleasantly surprised to find some very solid recommendations not only for
placing one sub but multiple ones as well.
They show you a chart for placing a single sub in a corner and how
moving it slightly away from corner placement will yield smoother sound. They also show that the ideal listening
position is around 1/3rd of the total room length away from the back
wall. JL Audio proceeds to expend a full
two pages with illustrations on the most ideal locations for placing up to four
subwoofers in a room. Their preference for placing two subs favors the front of
the room near the main speakers which I can certainly understand as it does
have its advantages especially when running stereo subs. This allows you to set
a higher crossover point without being concerned about localization issues and
thus achieving a more seamless blend and potentially higher impact. In my family room, I have two prewired spots
for subwoofers which are diagonally located front left behind my couch and back
right near my potted plant in my room as per my illustration. This is also incidentally a recommended
placement from the JL Audio user manual as well as our recommended placement
suggestions in our article “Multi Subwoofer Connection Guide”.
Calibration
I proceeded
to calibrate and level match each subwoofer independently by using all of the
options such as variable phase, adjustable and LPF settings. I achieved the best integration with the LPF
on both subs defeated and the variable phase set to zero degrees. Since both of the subs were equidistant from
my primary listening seat and my RX-Z7 only has one subwoofer output, I used a
Cables-to-Go Y-splitter to connect both of them and set the subwoofer distance
to the average distance of both subwoofers.
Incidentally, JL Audio recommends you dial in the subs as best as
possible before engaging ARO or any external room correction device and I am in
much agreement on that point. Using the
supplied mic positioned at my primary listening seat, I calibrated each sub
independently using the ARO system and plotted the results below using LMS.
In-room measurements with (black) and without (red) ARO calibration (1/12th octave smoothed)
ARO seemed to produce measurably favorable results at the primary listening position where I placed the JL Audio calibration mic maintaining a +-5dB response from 12Hz to 100Hz. These results were quite encouraging until I measured the secondary seat where my mother-in-law often sits (left side couch near the end table). ARO caused a 15dB suckout centered at 32Hz with a Q of about 3.6.
I tried a variety of alternative ARO setups including moving the calibration point to this seat and even midpoint between the two primary seats, as well as only calibrating one sub with ARO. The end results were either worse at that seat or at my primary listening seat. Unfortunately ARO is limited to a single point calibration unlike some of the more advanced systems out there like Audyssey.
I conducted extensive listening tests with and without ARO enabled and found it did tighten things up a bit at the primary listening seat but some bass impact was lost, especially at the other listening areas. As a result, unless otherwise stated, my listening tests were conducted with ARO defeated. My advice here is to experiment with using ARO. At the very minimum it’s a tool to add to your bag of tricks to help you tweak out the best possible sound. As with all room correction systems, results will vary depending on your room and placement conditions.
Editorial Note on Auto Calibration Systems
Having ARO define the response for both subs instead of independently would have likely yielded better results. This can be accomplished by wiring the two f110s in series and setting the secondary sub to “slave” mode. If you experience similar performance trade offs as I did using ARO, this may be worth a try assuming you can accommodate connecting the two subs in this fashion.
Reference Equipment (Showcase Home Family Room)
I used the
Yamaha RX-Z7 as the A/V receiver with Blue Jeans Cable 1694 Coax cable fed to each f110
and their 10AWG speaker cables for all of my speakers. The Denon DVD-2930CI was the source and I
utilized the RBH Signature SE/R series speaker package with MC-615 in-ceiling
speakers for the back channels for a full fledged 7.2 system. Most of my listening tests were conducted in
either discrete 5.1 multi-channel (ie. DTS, DVD-A) or via Pro Logic IIx Music Mode for two-channel sources such as CD’s or Net radio.
See also:
I suggest this sub to anyone with the funds and lack of desire for the effort required to orchestrate a DIY project.
Chris this really is an exceptional deal commercially speaking. Can a kappa style box with the 12w7 best it? I'd be willing to bet so. But seriously it's not as simple as it's stated. Even coordinating such a project costs money and time. Ordering a JL Audio takes a click and a check.
bandphan;591657
The head up the arse comment prompted me to re-post the challenge,
That comment was simply an outburst of my annoyance that so many people prefer to just buy a name brand pre-made item, rather than do minimal work to end up with much more for their money. No DIY is even needed in many case - as you can have the box easily built by any car audio shop for cheap and I offer to guide anyone along the process - or they can even choose among pre-fabbed/prefinished cabinets from some sources.
Sometimes you come across as a demi god, especially when discussing products you havent measured or listened to.
scott
I can understand why some people may think I am crazy to discuss products I have not personally analyzed. But when someone gets to the level of knowledge that I have in regards to physical behaviour/limits of specific construction and principles and the measured result expectations, it's just no mystery at all to me; I know the specific limitations and potential performance possible - and I can accurately make comments based on these pre-known performance windows. Of course, an unknown factor could throw me way off base... but in the case of the Fathom F113 and the JTR speaker in another thread... I have seen no evidence of a special factor/variable being present that would allow for something I can't already accurately guess. In the case of the Fathom 113; it's already been measured accurately b a credible 3rd party (so I have extensive data on it's actual performance) add I have used 'raw' JL audio drivers, including W7 units (same tech used in the Fathom, with minor changes), I know their performance abilities/limits.
-Chris
WmAx;591408
If you apply this to me, I don't poke fun at anyone, not in any serious way. I don' t know about 'twice the performance' of the Fathom for 1/2 the price, I have never made any such claim as possible with a sealed cabinet of comparable size to the Fathom, but you can certainly build it's equal for about 1/2 or a bit more the price. There is no secret to this: you can buy a variant of the W7 13" driver JL used in the Fathom for about $600. You can build a virtual clone of the unit for just a tad over 1/2 the cost of the authorized retailer selling price of the Fathom 13", and the DIY will be superior because the DSP I will specify will be more powerful and have more capabilities to seamlessly integrate the subwoofer with the main speakers. Although, 'auto' setup feature will not be present - you will have to do manual setup instead. The amplification and processing hardware will be external, not internal to the sub, as I am not aware of an appropriate internal mounting set up for this subwoofer that is available to the general public.
You can even exceed the JL version if the person wants to go to a larger cabinet size and go ported; LF output will be dramatically increased and distortion radically reduced. If cabinet size is increased, one can even mount the pro-amp and processing unit into the cabinet.
This sounds so bold and impressive, but it's not. Why would anyone spend $1500-$1700 to build a sub and send it off to some person just to look superior on an internet post? How could the DIY version be any worse than the commercial one? You are using the same technology driver and using superior amplification and DSP hardware. You could even exceed it if an Audiopulse ULTRA LMS or AXIS driver was available in 13", but they are not, and it would be 'cheating' to use the 15" version against the 13" W7. But if you want to compare to the 12" Fathom, then there are 12" LMS ULTRA and AXIS drivers available - which are superior to the W7 drivers - as verified in Klippel analysis.
-Chris
my point was is, has anyone taken craig up on this? I have zero doubt that a better sub can be built with 3db more output with a large ported design, but does anyone in the dyi group(which includes me) want to take the challenge? The head up the arse comment prompted me to re-post the challenge, as some just do not care to go dyi or want a one box small footprint solution regardless of the cost, thats all. I guess some are not wanting to be called dumb arses beacuse they dont want to follow your end all design plans. Its nothing personal, as i respect your ability to build high quality products. Sometimes you come across as a demi god, especially when discussing products you havent measured or listened to.
scott
bandphan;591324
Quote:Originally Posted by craigsub
Manville is correct.
It is ridiculous to have to continue to tolerate these meaningless posts from people who have never even auditioned a Fathom, and who have no interest in one, either.
This trend to poke fun at people buying the Fathom for "having more money than sense" and the constant claims of "I could build a sub with twice the performance for half the price" gets really old.
If you apply this to me, I don't poke fun at anyone, not in any serious way. I don' t know about 'twice the performance' of the Fathom for 1/2 the price, I have never made any such claim as possible with a sealed cabinet of comparable size to the Fathom, but you can certainly build it's equal for about 1/2 or a bit more the price. There is no secret to this: you can buy a variant of the W7 13" driver JL used in the Fathom for about $600. You can build a virtual clone of the unit for just a tad over 1/2 the cost of the authorized retailer selling price of the Fathom 13", and the DIY will be superior because the DSP I will specify will be more powerful and have more capabilities to seamlessly integrate the subwoofer with the main speakers. Although, 'auto' setup feature will not be present - you will have to do manual setup instead. The amplification and processing hardware will be external, not internal to the sub, as I am not aware of an appropriate internal mounting set up for this subwoofer that is available to the general public.
You can even exceed the JL version if the person wants to go to a larger cabinet size and go ported; LF output will be dramatically increased and distortion radically reduced. If cabinet size is increased, one can even mount the pro-amp and processing unit into the cabinet.
When called upon to prove it, of course there is a plethora of excuses why the DIY guru cannot do so. I particularly like the "I cannot afford to build you a subwoofer" excuse. Afterall, based on the claims, I would be doubling the DIY guy's money when purchasing the sub from him.
This sounds so bold and impressive, but it's not. Why would anyone spend $1500-$1700 to build a sub and send it off to some person just to look superior on an internet post? How could the DIY version be any worse than the commercial one? You are using the same technology driver and using superior amplification and DSP hardware. You could even exceed it if an Audiopulse ULTRA LMS or AXIS driver was available in 13", but they are not, and it would be 'cheating' to use the 15" version against the 13" W7. But if you want to compare to the 12" Fathom, then there are 12" LMS ULTRA and AXIS drivers available - which are superior to the W7 drivers - as verified in Klippel analysis.
-Chris
