Methods for Improving Speaker Testing
Although
this speaker comparison produced interesting results, I believe we all learned
a lot from this process regarding how to improve our testing methodology for
producing more consistent testing results.
I have listed my observations below in efforts to improve our
methodology for our next annual Faceoff.
Find Less Lossy Grille Cloth
Covering
I believe
one of the largest biasing factors in this test was the extremely lossy grille
cloth we utilized to cover the speakers which seemed to shift the listener
preference to the brighter speakers.
Since it's virtually impossible to stretch the cloth more taut, we
either need to blindfold our listeners or find less lossy material to use in
future comparisons. Ian Colquhoun from Axiom Audio commented that perhaps the grille cloth we used for our testing was only acoustically transparent when stretched over a grille cover. Axiom uses specific cloth that is less lossy for these type of tests and will be happy to supply us samples for our next blind faceoff comparison testing.
Use Better Randomization of Testing
Rather than
assigning each speaker a letter designation, I will follow in Tom Andry's foot
steps where he only assigned an "A" and "B" designation for
the speakers and simply kept track which was which during the testing to always
keep the listeners guessing.
A B
Klipsch JBL
JBL EMP
EMP Axiom
Axiom Klipsch
JBL Axiom
Klipsch EMP
I believe
towards the end of the tests, people already had preconceived ideas of what
each speaker would sound like based on simply calling out its letter
designation. Some of the listeners
reported it was too confusing remembering four letter designations when taking
notes.
Reduce Number of Listeners per
Session and Increase Number of Listening Sessions
For two-channel listening, it makes little sense to
sit any particular listener off axis from the stereo sweet spot. I believe we partly confirmed the research
Dr. Sean Olive conducted regarding listening position can have a more dramatic
impact on listener preference than the actual audible differences in the
loudspeakers themselves. Our data showed
that people sitting in the back row preferred the speakers with the most bass
and high frequency bias. Their
preferences also seemed to have the most variability in ratings from test to
test. It's inconclusive however if these
preferences were influenced by them also being the least experienced listeners
or simply changing their opinion of the speaker under test when compared to a
different speaker each time. More study
is needed to make an accurate correlation. Perhaps in our next round of testing we will trick the listeners into comparing the same speaker during our A/B testing as a control to determine the variability in their preferences.
One thing that’s important to realize is in order to have reasonably accurate results a greater number of tests and sampling of listeners is needed in order to produce significantly meaningful results (>95% confidence). Unfortunately it is often costly and impractical to conduct blind tests in this fashion like it's typically done in the medical field. Sorry we are just an A/V publication, NOT a pharmaceutical company with billions of dollars in financial backing. This doesn't, however, mean we can't improve our methodology by restricting our listening sessions to the best seats in the room and spanning the test out for multiple days to include more listeners. If there are any volunteers to host such tests, drop me an email :)
Use the Most appropriate Listening
Venue
An
important factor to how a loudspeaker performs is the type and size of the room
it is placed in. My primary theater room
is quite large (almost 6,000ft^3). It's
also acoustically treated with an asymmetrical right sidewall. Small speakers have a hard time producing
high SPLs in this room as they tend to get drowned out in such a large
listening venue. I suspect if we used my
Family room which is much more lively thanks to its wood floors, glass door and
high ceilings, listener preferences would have been much different, perhaps
favoring the more laid back speakers in the high frequencies. It would have be interesting to conduct these
listening tests in two different rooms to determine how those results change
based solely on room acoustics. Future
comparisons may be conducted in two different listening venues to determine how
much the room influences listener preference.
Better train inexperienced listeners
The
variability both in comments and ratings was highest among the least
experienced listeners. I was a bit
surprised by all of the negative comments for all of the speakers. Perhaps I didn't do a good job explaining to
the listeners what to listen for and to put more focus on the positive
attributes they were hearing.
I also observed that the trained listeners exhibited preference towards the more tonally neutral speakers while the untrained listeners appeared to have higher preferences for the speakers with the most bass and treble. Perhaps it would be beneficial to better prepare the inexperienced listeners on what to listen for when evaluating loudspeaker performance. On the flip side it does provide insightful data to see what untrained listeners prefer when walking into a showroom floor trying to select the best sounding speaker.
A Note About Listening Tests
When choosing a loudspeaker it's important to first decide on what purpose it will serve to you as well as what type of room you will be listening to it in - and at what SPL levels. All of the blind test results in the world won't determine how a particular loudspeaker will sound in your listening environment reproducing the music you like to listen too. It's also important to NOT judge a loudspeaker's performance solely on one or two short listening sessions. Casual buyers tend to gravitate towards the most colored sounding speaker on a busy showroom floor only to find weeks later they suffer from buyer's remorse caused by listening fatigue. When judging a loudspeaker performance in your own home, ask yourself "does this sound like an actual reproduction or just a colored representation?"
See also:
I think its better to agree to disagree on design aspects of loudspeakers and just be done with it. Everyone has their own reasoning that may work best (in their minds) for them. 100% truth can never be realized in something as subjective and emotional as the audiophile experience.
There are MANY satisfied Axiom customers in the marketplace and it is obvious Axiom is meeting their needs. There are also many competing brands for those wanting something else. The free market rules!
Going forward, I'd like to keep a more open mind and positive attitude towards all manufacturers and let the consumers decide based on our reviews and their experiences with the products if said products are right for their needs.
Mods please note this and lets put the brakes on any future threads that turn out like this.
I am closing this thread on a high note with hopes we can continue to cover new Axiom products for the benefit of readers interested in learning more about them.
Paul_Apollonio;857427
I followed the link to the Axiom site, and would like to make an engineering sidenote. First of all by eliminating the series high-pass capacitor (at the VERY minimum) needed to protect the midrange from dangerous levels of peak LF content, this lowers the impedance of the system in a range where the output of the mids add NOTHING to the output of the Woofer; hence lowering system sensitivity. First bad. Second bad = pretending the worst of this can be found with a distortion sweep looking for 2nd and 3rd Harmonics. RUBBISH. The problem is that by eliminating the High Pass (HP) filter on the mids, the LF content will move the VC about, possibly out of the gap and thereby allow the LF to modulate (read distort) the midrange the speaker produces. With a sweeping test (one frequency at a time) there is NO WAY to see this effect, and Axiom is well aware of that. To see this effect, one must put in two frequencies simultaneously and view the output on a spectrum analyzer. (One can see distortion products as sum and difference frequencies) This is a simple process and one all audio engineers are familiar with. Sadly, not all customers are, so the charade continues.
Even if the Midrange driver is made INCREDIBLY stiff, and placed in a very very small sealed enclosure minimizing excursion and hence this distortion, subjecting the midrange VC to the heat caused by the LF content is NEVER better than saving the price of the series capacitor. Unless, I guess, it is your money, and you don't really care about stressing an amp or drive unit you get paid to replace.
There is such a thing as recommended practice and procedures, and the practice of eliminating the high pass filter, even if only a single series capacitor from the midrange driver is not a good idea by any stretch of imagination. In fact, it is a sign the designer is clueless or could care less about the result.
As for the listening tests, there are never any shortage of people willing to claim a given distortion is inaudible. Of course, if you limit the input power to very low levels, you won't hear this problem. You won't hear many speaker distortions as most only show up on high drive levels.
Certain physical principles apply to design, and it does not matter the brand or the politics involved. Allowing the large peak amplitudes of low frequency content to get to a midrange speakers voice coil is a terribly bad idea period.
This is not a new concept. (At least to competent engineers who are not counting nickles and pennies). - Paul Apollonio
Axiom did this with the M80v1 as well with not so successful results.
Emonatics - Emotiva Fans Site [emonatics.com]
gene;856611
{Heavily edited by me}
Nobody really wants unfavorable comments written about their products and proud owners of said products don't want to see negative comments either.
The bottom line is Axiom has always had a problem with our critical review process. They don't like negative comments about products. They don't like face offs. They seemingly don't like measurements or blind tests done outside their facilities. They have told me this many times in the past in person and via email. They instead prefer consumers to accept their science and testing as gospel that spending more money than what they sell their speakers for is simply purchasing cosmetic upgrades.
I've spent 12+ years comparing speakers (sighted and blind) from virtually every manufacturer and my experiences don't always match what Axiom preaches.
In my experience Axiom is NOT up to the level of legitimately well engineered cost no object speakers however.
While there are some outlandish speaker designs out there, there are also some incredible sounding products that happen to cost a lot too.
Performance is all over the map but it doesn't necessarily stop progressing at a magic price point.
I'd honestly like to stop the bantering back and forth on this topic. It's been beaten to death and nobody gains from it.
I won't be commenting any further about Axiom on the forums. I've said everything that needed to be said.
I followed the link to the Axiom site, and would like to make an engineering sidenote. First of all by eliminating the series high-pass capacitor (at the VERY minimum) needed to protect the midrange from dangerous levels of peak LF content, this lowers the impedance of the system in a range where the output of the mids add NOTHING to the output of the Woofer; hence lowering system sensitivity. First bad. Second bad = pretending the worst of this can be found with a distortion sweep looking for 2nd and 3rd Harmonics. RUBBISH. The problem is that by eliminating the High Pass (HP) filter on the mids, the LF content will move the VC about, possibly out of the gap and thereby allow the LF to modulate (read distort) the midrange the speaker produces. With a sweeping test (one frequency at a time) there is NO WAY to see this effect, and Axiom is well aware of that. To see this effect, one must put in two frequencies simultaneously and view the output on a spectrum analyzer. (One can see distortion products as sum and difference frequencies) This is a simple process and one all audio engineers are familiar with. Sadly, not all customers are, so the charade continues.
Even if the Midrange driver is made INCREDIBLY stiff, and placed in a very very small sealed enclosure minimizing excursion and hence this distortion, subjecting the midrange VC to the heat caused by the LF content is NEVER better than saving the price of the series capacitor. Unless, I guess, it is your money, and you don't really care about stressing an amp or drive unit you get paid to replace.
There is such a thing as recommended practice and procedures, and the practice of eliminating the high pass filter, even if only a single series capacitor from the midrange driver is not a good idea by any stretch of imagination. In fact, it is a sign the designer is clueless or could care less about the result.
As for the listening tests, there are never any shortage of people willing to claim a given distortion is inaudible. Of course, if you limit the input power to very low levels, you won't hear this problem. You won't hear many speaker distortions as most only show up on high drive levels.
Certain physical principles apply to design, and it does not matter the brand or the politics involved. Allowing the large peak amplitudes of low frequency content to get to a midrange speakers voice coil is a terribly bad idea period.
This is not a new concept. (At least to competent engineers who are not counting nickles and pennies). - Paul Apollonio
agarwalro;857098
Perhaps I was a little curt in my last post. I sensed something that was valuable and worth saving and perhaps overreacted. Moving on...
$5 says Jim Salk can match the finish on any of those Lansche veneers .
My remark was not really about Gene but the credibility of the AH reviews and their process
Now we move on!!!!!!!!
Some remarks been said that the Lansche 5.1 is the best dynamic speaker some people heard.... (Obviously they didn't listen to the upscale models from same producer) well they better be considering the price tag.... but still.... need to make sure I deliver my lotto this week
