JBL ES80 Floorstanding Loudspeaker
The JBL ES80 is a 4-way loudspeaker with dual 6"
woofers, one 4" midrange and one 3/4" titanium dome tweeter and one
3/4" ring radiator super tweeter.
The crossover points are 700Hz, 3.6kHz and 12kHz. The reported sensitivity is 91dB which
theoretically is about 3dB more sensitive than the EMP E55ti towers, yet I
measured similar sensitivity of both speakers.
The frequency response is rated from 45Hz to 40kHz (-3dB). These speakers have a nice clean look to
them, but I must admit that upon first glance I didn't expect much . This was
because I felt the midrange and tweeter drivers appeared to be very cheaply
designed. I was really blown away when I
hooked them up and was rewarded with tonally neutral sound. The bass was tight and well-extended and the
midrange was pronounced, though a bit dark and analytical sounding. The highs were detailed and not
fatiguing. I had high hopes for these
speakers in the blind test as I felt they were one of the most accurate
sounding among the four in this comparison.
JBL ES80 In-Room Frequency Response at Primary Listening Position
I measured the ES80's for all three test trials. The dip at 400-500Hz is caused by floor bounce which is a measurement anomaly. The variations between the three measurements were a due to positional differences whether they were located in the marked area closest to the left wall or further.
JBL ES80 Listener Comments for Blind Tests
When JBL directly compared to Axiom
Comments from trained listeners:
- Boxy midrange (female vocals).
- Somewhat thin and forward sounding and bright at times but good bass extension.
Comments from other listeners:
- Veiled highs, bass heavy, forward sounding and narrow soundstage.
- Poor imaging but punchy bass.
- Nice range of sound and well balanced from left to right.
- Harsh highs, excessive bass, average
mids.
When JBL directly compared to EMP
Comments from trained listeners:
- Not much texture in midrange, bass is deep but not as tight as the other speaker
- Similar sound to speaker C (Author's note: this was the Klipsch), don't care for the sound
Comments from other listeners:
- Bass heavy, lacks clear highs.
- Not as impressive as other speaker in all aspects.
- Lots of bass, full sound overall but lacks crispness of other speaker.
- Seemed to sound more balanced
overall than the other speaker.
When JBL compared to
Klipsch
Comments from trained listeners:
- Bass seems loose, midrange clear but recessed, overall boxy sounding.
- Crisp clean sound with smooth frequency response but a bit thin and would be better with a sub.
Comments from other listeners:
- Very good imaging but lacks soundstage.
- Less impressive than other speaker.
- Veiled highs but overall good sound.
- Music sounded pulled away compared to other speaker.
- Klipsch Rep: deeper soundstage than
other speaker.
See also:
Recent Forum Posts:
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gene posts on January 14, 2012 11:04
This constant back and forth between us, forum members and Axiom isn't productive for anyone involved. I honestly don't have it in my heart to sustain negative energy like this. I myself am to blame because I allowed it to progress on this forum rather than objectively removing or stopping the threads just like I would have done for any other manufacturer. For that, I apologize to Axiom.
I think its better to agree to disagree on design aspects of loudspeakers and just be done with it. Everyone has their own reasoning that may work best (in their minds) for them. 100% truth can never be realized in something as subjective and emotional as the audiophile experience.
There are MANY satisfied Axiom customers in the marketplace and it is obvious Axiom is meeting their needs. There are also many competing brands for those wanting something else. The free market rules!
Going forward, I'd like to keep a more open mind and positive attitude towards all manufacturers and let the consumers decide based on our reviews and their experiences with the products if said products are right for their needs.
Mods please note this and lets put the brakes on any future threads that turn out like this.
I am closing this thread on a high note with hopes we can continue to cover new Axiom products for the benefit of readers interested in learning more about them.
I think its better to agree to disagree on design aspects of loudspeakers and just be done with it. Everyone has their own reasoning that may work best (in their minds) for them. 100% truth can never be realized in something as subjective and emotional as the audiophile experience.
There are MANY satisfied Axiom customers in the marketplace and it is obvious Axiom is meeting their needs. There are also many competing brands for those wanting something else. The free market rules!
Going forward, I'd like to keep a more open mind and positive attitude towards all manufacturers and let the consumers decide based on our reviews and their experiences with the products if said products are right for their needs.
Mods please note this and lets put the brakes on any future threads that turn out like this.
I am closing this thread on a high note with hopes we can continue to cover new Axiom products for the benefit of readers interested in learning more about them.
MinusTheBear posts on January 13, 2012 21:31
Paul_Apollonio;857427
I followed the link to the Axiom site, and would like to make an engineering sidenote. First of all by eliminating the series high-pass capacitor (at the VERY minimum) needed to protect the midrange from dangerous levels of peak LF content, this lowers the impedance of the system in a range where the output of the mids add NOTHING to the output of the Woofer; hence lowering system sensitivity. First bad. Second bad = pretending the worst of this can be found with a distortion sweep looking for 2nd and 3rd Harmonics. RUBBISH. The problem is that by eliminating the High Pass (HP) filter on the mids, the LF content will move the VC about, possibly out of the gap and thereby allow the LF to modulate (read distort) the midrange the speaker produces. With a sweeping test (one frequency at a time) there is NO WAY to see this effect, and Axiom is well aware of that. To see this effect, one must put in two frequencies simultaneously and view the output on a spectrum analyzer. (One can see distortion products as sum and difference frequencies) This is a simple process and one all audio engineers are familiar with. Sadly, not all customers are, so the charade continues.
Even if the Midrange driver is made INCREDIBLY stiff, and placed in a very very small sealed enclosure minimizing excursion and hence this distortion, subjecting the midrange VC to the heat caused by the LF content is NEVER better than saving the price of the series capacitor. Unless, I guess, it is your money, and you don't really care about stressing an amp or drive unit you get paid to replace.
There is such a thing as recommended practice and procedures, and the practice of eliminating the high pass filter, even if only a single series capacitor from the midrange driver is not a good idea by any stretch of imagination. In fact, it is a sign the designer is clueless or could care less about the result.
As for the listening tests, there are never any shortage of people willing to claim a given distortion is inaudible. Of course, if you limit the input power to very low levels, you won't hear this problem. You won't hear many speaker distortions as most only show up on high drive levels.
Certain physical principles apply to design, and it does not matter the brand or the politics involved. Allowing the large peak amplitudes of low frequency content to get to a midrange speakers voice coil is a terribly bad idea period.
This is not a new concept. (At least to competent engineers who are not counting nickles and pennies). - Paul Apollonio
Axiom did this with the M80v1 as well with not so successful results.
Emonatics - Emotiva Fans Site [emonatics.com]
Paul_Apollonio posts on January 13, 2012 15:57
gene;856611
{Heavily edited by me}
Nobody really wants unfavorable comments written about their products and proud owners of said products don't want to see negative comments either.
The bottom line is Axiom has always had a problem with our critical review process. They don't like negative comments about products. They don't like face offs. They seemingly don't like measurements or blind tests done outside their facilities. They have told me this many times in the past in person and via email. They instead prefer consumers to accept their science and testing as gospel that spending more money than what they sell their speakers for is simply purchasing cosmetic upgrades.
I've spent 12+ years comparing speakers (sighted and blind) from virtually every manufacturer and my experiences don't always match what Axiom preaches.
In my experience Axiom is NOT up to the level of legitimately well engineered cost no object speakers however.
While there are some outlandish speaker designs out there, there are also some incredible sounding products that happen to cost a lot too.
Performance is all over the map but it doesn't necessarily stop progressing at a magic price point.
I'd honestly like to stop the bantering back and forth on this topic. It's been beaten to death and nobody gains from it.
I won't be commenting any further about Axiom on the forums. I've said everything that needed to be said.
I followed the link to the Axiom site, and would like to make an engineering sidenote. First of all by eliminating the series high-pass capacitor (at the VERY minimum) needed to protect the midrange from dangerous levels of peak LF content, this lowers the impedance of the system in a range where the output of the mids add NOTHING to the output of the Woofer; hence lowering system sensitivity. First bad. Second bad = pretending the worst of this can be found with a distortion sweep looking for 2nd and 3rd Harmonics. RUBBISH. The problem is that by eliminating the High Pass (HP) filter on the mids, the LF content will move the VC about, possibly out of the gap and thereby allow the LF to modulate (read distort) the midrange the speaker produces. With a sweeping test (one frequency at a time) there is NO WAY to see this effect, and Axiom is well aware of that. To see this effect, one must put in two frequencies simultaneously and view the output on a spectrum analyzer. (One can see distortion products as sum and difference frequencies) This is a simple process and one all audio engineers are familiar with. Sadly, not all customers are, so the charade continues.
Even if the Midrange driver is made INCREDIBLY stiff, and placed in a very very small sealed enclosure minimizing excursion and hence this distortion, subjecting the midrange VC to the heat caused by the LF content is NEVER better than saving the price of the series capacitor. Unless, I guess, it is your money, and you don't really care about stressing an amp or drive unit you get paid to replace.
There is such a thing as recommended practice and procedures, and the practice of eliminating the high pass filter, even if only a single series capacitor from the midrange driver is not a good idea by any stretch of imagination. In fact, it is a sign the designer is clueless or could care less about the result.
As for the listening tests, there are never any shortage of people willing to claim a given distortion is inaudible. Of course, if you limit the input power to very low levels, you won't hear this problem. You won't hear many speaker distortions as most only show up on high drive levels.
Certain physical principles apply to design, and it does not matter the brand or the politics involved. Allowing the large peak amplitudes of low frequency content to get to a midrange speakers voice coil is a terribly bad idea period.
This is not a new concept. (At least to competent engineers who are not counting nickles and pennies). - Paul Apollonio
haraldo posts on January 13, 2012 02:50
agarwalro;857098
Perhaps I was a little curt in my last post. I sensed something that was valuable and worth saving and perhaps overreacted. Moving on...
$5 says Jim Salk can match the finish on any of those Lansche veneers .
My remark was not really about Gene but the credibility of the AH reviews and their process
Now we move on!!!!!!!!
Some remarks been said that the Lansche 5.1 is the best dynamic speaker some people heard.... (Obviously they didn't listen to the upscale models from same producer) well they better be considering the price tag.... but still.... need to make sure I deliver my lotto this week
tom67 posts on January 12, 2012 19:03
where it began.....Klipsch won the contest and it was a fair fight...and none of these contests are perfect.....so, perhaps the bottom line is that you might want to look at their products within given price points and not believe the stale, lame comments on websites by people who have never owned them...and Yamaha receivers are not "bright" either and on and on...
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