$199 MMMM Horizontally Oriented Measurements
If you were setting out to
design a speaker with the worst off-axis response possible, you should use a
whole bunch of identical horizontal drivers.
This next center channel speaker does mostly that, with four identical
“full range” 2.5 inch paper drivers, two in the front and two inside to help
load their ported enclosure. It could be
said that this speaker “has no highs, has no lows, must be…”, but because the
front two drivers are oriented at an angle from each other, this speaker
maintains its mediocrity with a fair degree of consistency. This company’s ad copy states that their
design “’locks’ dramatic dialogue to the screen.” If by this they mean that their design
diffuses dialogue across your room, they would be right on.
In the 1/24 octave chart below, you can see severe wave interference in the top three octaves (2.5 to 20 kHz), as well as some trouble in the upper midrange (1.3 to 1.8 kHz). Most of the narrowest spikes are inaudible in practice, so we’ll need to smooth out this data a bit and calculate how much the frequency response varies from the normalized on-axis measurement.
In the 1/6 octave chart below we can see that the wave interference is quite audible around 1.4 kHz and becomes severe above 2.5 kHz. This charts shows that there are angles at which you can get over 10 dB of wave cancellation in the frequencies that are critical for vocal intelligibility. A 10 dB loss of significant portions of the lower treble would be perceived as being half as loud. The biggest problem is that the behavior is not linear or predictable. You can’t just turn the volume up to compensate for the low fidelity sound that the other seats would experience.
Around 20 degrees off-axis of the loudspeaker, one becomes on-axis to one of the angled “full-range” drivers. When you get on-axis with one of these beauties, the high frequency beaming that occurs from trying to make a 2.5 inch driver into a tweeter becomes apparent. There is an audible peak around 11 kHz when you’re directly in front of a driver, which would sound sibilant and tizzy. Combine that harshness with the loss of lower treble and upper midrange that brings presence and intelligibility, and you’ll be undermining the entire experience. Disappointing the spouse won’t help your next request for spending the family budget on “what is it you want now?”
The best way to minimize wave interference is to minimize the frequency range that redundant horizontal drivers reproduce. This MMMM speaker (or is it a FF?) doesn’t relieve the drivers with a crossover, and so we have to calculate and score its variation in horizontal frequency response from 80 Hz to 20 kHz, which comes out at 1.81.
Recent Forum Posts:
irish;637493
Thanks for the recommendations. The Beta 360 would be too large for my application although it does look nice. The KEF Q series, iQ60c, looks like it might work pretty well as it's less than 7" tall. The speaker cabinet design is a bit different but that isn't a breaking point. How do co-axials differ from in sound or performance from a more "traditional" design where the speakers are seperate?
If more speakers had a wider bandwidth, then there would be no crossovers and multiple speakers. Multiple speakers are a workaround for a problem, not an inherent advantage.
The point of a coaxial speaker is to keep the sound coherent. What would be ideal is to have a bass/mid cone that crossed over to the tweeter, 4 kHz, then you would avoid a crossover in the speech discrimination band. However no such animal exists at present and crossover to the tweeter in current units is in the neighborhood of 3 kHz.
In a coaxial, the cone of the woofer acts as a wave guide to the tweeter. Things a re designed such that there is usually time coherence. However because a first order crossover is just about never possible, there are phase anomalies at crossover, just like any other speaker. There is symmetrical lobing and therefore the vertical and horizontal axis response is identical. The coverage is therefore conical.
As far as drivers to choose from the most well known are KEF and Tannoy. Thiel also has a coaxial center. Pioneer also have one in their range.
However, after having auditioned KEF recently the SEAS driver is in my view far superior.
You can buy a LOKI kit [madisound.com] that is very good value.
I use these drivers in my center speaker. The tweeter is used only in the lower driver, the upper one is an active fill driver and the tweeter not connected.
In this TL, I could not be more happy with it.
lsiberian;637476
For If you are interested in a coaxial accessories4less sells KEF speakers for a pretty cheap clip. Still you'd have to like their other offering. I think the best horizontal center I've heard in the budget range is the Beta 360 treated with rockwool and peel-n-seal
Thanks for the recommendations. The Beta 360 would be too large for my application although it does look nice. The KEF Q series, iQ60c, looks like it might work pretty well as it's less than 7" tall. The speaker cabinet design is a bit different but that isn't a breaking point. How do co-axials differ from in sound or performance from a more "traditional" design where the speakers are seperate?
irish;637446
Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids...
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 [avsforum.com] so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm [paradigm.com]. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!
These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm [paradigm.com]
For If you are interested in a coaxial accessories4less sells KEF speakers for a pretty cheap clip. Still you'd have to like their other offering. I think the best horizontal center I've heard in the budget range is the Beta 360 treated with rockwool and peel-n-seal
irish;637446
Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids...
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 [avsforum.com] so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm [paradigm.com]. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!
These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm [paradigm.com]
The paradigm C190 is on the right lines, but I think you would have to go with an all Paradigm system, as they have a definite voicing about them, that I did not care for when I auditioned them, at least the Studio 100s
Thanks for your response! I was pretty sure that was the case but I may have no choice due to my set up. It's a living room/HT set up and acoustically won't be great but it's what we have. I'm still learning and have no idea what the bolded words mean. If I understand correctly when a center is horizontal the tweeter needs to be raised vertically so that it's not in line with the mids...
The stand I have is like this one http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15604297&postcount=105 [avsforum.com] so there isn't room a for a center due to the units being pushed together. I'm also size limited due to using a plasma on it's stand with a 7" clearance from base to screen so bookshelf speakers won't fit.
The best fit from quality mfgs that I've found would be the Def Techs or Paradigm CC-190 which does have vertically aligned tweeters http://paradigm.com/en/paradigm/speaker_only-specification-6-1-3-4.paradigm [paradigm.com]. Would that be a better option that the Mythos?
Thanks a bunch for helping me out!
These might work too but they're aligned as well http://paradigm.com/en/reference/speaker_only-specification-65-1-3-20.paradigm [paradigm.com]


